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Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
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Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?
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  Post Number #9  
Old 13th July 2018, 12:10 PM
dsanabria

 
 
Total Posts: 1,350
Re: Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

It has been almost 20 years that ISO 9001 is supposed to be implemented via a "process-based" approach.

We all (should) know that a (documented) procedure serves the purpose of determining the criteria and methods needed to ensure the effective operation and control of such processes.

With that in mind, any time the actual process deviates from an existing procedure (or any other command media), which is supposed to provide process definition, the situation represents a failure to comply with ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 and more specifically, 4.4.1.c).
Excellent point Sidney...

The other side of this point is that I have seen a deviation of processes and procedure which has improved the effectiveness of the process but was not properly documented.

just another perspective to enhance the discussion.... )

"ISO 9001:2015
4.4.1 The organization shall establish, implement, maintain and continually improve a quality management system, including the processes needed and their interactions, in accordance with the requirements of this International Standard.

The organization shall determine the processes needed for the quality management system and their
application throughout the organization, and shall:


c) determine and apply the criteria and methods (including monitoring, measurements and related performance indicators) needed to ensure the effective operation and control of these processes;:
Thanks to dsanabria for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #10  
Old 13th July 2018, 12:30 PM
normzone

 
 
Total Posts: 753
Re: Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?

Thank you all - just two minutes ago I was asking myself this same question, and logged into this forum on a whim to find this thread at the top.

Somebody post the winning six lottery numbers for this weekends drawing please.
  Post Number #11  
Old 13th July 2018, 12:45 PM
Shrikant0526

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Re: Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?

Thank you all for your thoughtful inputs.
  Post Number #12  
Old 13th July 2018, 03:13 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,350
Re: Which ISO 9001 Clause applies to "Procedures are outdated"?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria View Post

The other side of this point is that I have seen a deviation of processes and procedure which has improved the effectiveness of the process but was not properly documented.
I agree. Sometimes, the mismatch between the deployed process and the documentation defining the process is because the process evolved and the documentation revision is lagging behind.

That is what I wrote in this post, over 8 years ago.

Quote:
Failure to follow established procedures signify failure to implement PROCESSES, as devised. ISO 9001 is about process control & improvement. Documented procedures exist to describe how the process is supposed to work. Thus, and obviously, if you are not following a documented procedure, chances are, you are deviating from the intended way the process is supposed to be executed. Unless it is one of those instances where the documented procedure has not been revised to catch up with the intended process.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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