The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
User Errors and Product Nonconformances
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

User Errors and Product Nonconformances - Page 3


Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

AIAG - Automotive Industry Action Group

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
nonconformance report (ncr), nonconformances, operator error
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #17  
Old 16th March 2018, 01:08 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,199
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mark Meer View Post

Slightly more complicated example would be to consider the requirements between components and finished devices.

What if the root-cause is that some metal sub-component failed that, by its own specification, is supposed keep its integrity even far beyond the required lifetime of the device into which it was incorporated?

Would you document this as a part non-conformance, but not a product non-conformance? Even though, given the spec of the metal part, the product was not expected to fail due to wear out of the metal part?

Overthinking to be sure.... Just food for discussion, and genuinely curious how others categorize/document such scenarios.
A warranty for an assembly should take into consideration the useful lives of all of the components on the BOM. If, in your scenario, the component in question is used in other assemblies for which failure of the component could affect the warranty, then you would want to take a closer look at the use of that component wherever it's used. What sort of documentation you use or what you call the failure is mostly irrelevant to the concept. The essence of a thing doesn't change when you change its name.
Thank You to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #18  
Old 22nd March 2018, 02:25 PM
Mikey324

 
 
Total Posts: 53
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Just my opinion here...

If it happened once, it will happen again. Call it a NC, call it defective, or call it George, it will happen again. If a customer can easily mess with internal calibrations, even for a perceived problem, they will do it. It human nature. The whole "what does this button do" thing. If it were me, i would modify the device, for example, requiring a passcode provided by tech support, to only allow adjustments through over the phone trouble shooting. That was your intent anyway. You could even call it an improvement.
Thanks to Mikey324 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #19  
Old 22nd March 2018, 03:11 PM
Mark Meer

 
 
Total Posts: 856
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mikey324 View Post

...If it happened once, it will happen again.
...It human nature. The whole "what does this button do" thing. If it were me, i would modify the device, for example, requiring a passcode provided by tech support, to only allow adjustments through over the phone trouble shooting.
Appreciate the suggestion. However, obviously a cost/benefit has to be done, in addition to taking into account the expected user & user interaction with the product.

Take the Windows PC, for example. Plenty of opportunity for users to take actions that would break the system (uninstall drivers, fiddle with the BIOS,...). Microsoft no doubt maintains a robust quality system, and probably gets many complaints from users doing exactly these things, and yet in all the revisions of Windows these features still exist...

It's really difficult to make any generalizations regarding actions. You really have to examine case-by-case. My initial post was more related to classification and documentation.
  Post Number #20  
Old 22nd March 2018, 03:17 PM
Mikey324

 
 
Total Posts: 53
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

I agree with you. Its case by case, although my point was very general. You don't spend $1,000 to fix a 10 cent problem. My point is still the same. If it can be easily fixed, it's best to prevent future problems. How much does an customer who isn't satisfied cost? They typically tell their friends too. I have seen people switch vendors because the product wasn't user friendly enough. Nothing wrong with the devices, just easy for the every day Joe to mess up. The vendor still lost the same amount of business at the end of the day. It goes back to risk based thinking. Is the risk level acceptable, or should we take action??
  Post Number #21  
Old 6th April 2018, 10:02 AM
mlee97's Avatar
mlee97

 
 
Total Posts: 32
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mike S. View Post

Say I make lawn mowers and you bought one and it worked fine all summer. The engine speed is self-governed to 2800 RPM. You went on vacation and did not mow for 3 weeks and now you have foot-tall grass and you decide to bypass the engine-speed governor with a spring from your parts collection and it runs the motor at 3800 RPM so it cuts the tall grass faster. Halfway through your mowing the engine blows up. You say you don't like my mower.

Who's at fault?
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

This way madness lies. We need to always remember the phrase "design intent." ..
If you business is to make mowers, designed widgets, or 65K tires, then yes, there is no fault.

If your business is to make money by satisfying customers, then yes they are all faults, missed opportunities. If your "design intent" is to make buggy whips, well then make them until your competitors put you out of business. Because your customer wants a mower that can mow both high and low grass and he wants a tire that can last longer than the last set, he/she will vote with their money and not satisfying them better than any other competitor is a fault for the company.
  Post Number #22  
Old 6th April 2018, 11:00 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,199
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by mlee97 View Post

If you business is to make mowers, designed widgets, or 65K tires, then yes, there is no fault.

If your business is to make money by satisfying customers, then yes they are all faults, missed opportunities. If your "design intent" is to make buggy whips, well then make them until your competitors put you out of business. Because your customer wants a mower that can mow both high and low grass and he wants a tire that can last longer than the last set, he/she will vote with their money and not satisfying them better than any other competitor is a fault for the company.
If a potential customer is faced with an array of the same type of products, and those products are offered at different prices and intended for different purposes or conditions of use, and that potential customer purchases one of the array that is specifically unsuited to his intended use, the fault lies with the customer if the product fails.

What you seem to be suggesting, at least with the examples you cite, that that customers should not be given a choice in purchasing a product from a line, and that everything should be one-size-fits-all. There should be no lawnmowers specifically intended for heavy-duty use and others intended for "normal" lawn-mowing? There should not be different grades of tires at different prices such that consumers can choose one that suits their needs and budgets? Really?
Thanks to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #23  
Old 6th April 2018, 11:12 AM
kzachawk's Avatar
kzachawk

 
 
Total Posts: 27
Re: User Errors and Product Nonconformances

Manufacturing explanation of component calibration needs to be reviewed in order to allow the customer to achieve valid calibration. This sounds like a communication and education problem in which the quality staff needs to go to the customers place of business and review the process of calibration with them, understanding how they were able to achieve incorrect calibration and assist them in achieving accurate calibration for the device.
This is known as "Good Will" Warranty. and its a common tactic of business, which (if done correctly, non-judgmental) will assist the supplier in acquiring an improved relationship with its customer.
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Custom User Titles - Choosing Your Forum User Name Sub-Text Mark Meer Forum Software - How to Do Things in the Elsmar Forum --> Instructions 1 23rd February 2017 09:03 PM
Spelling Errors in User Manual (IFU) for Medical Device Haisoj Lesleh ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13 24th November 2016 12:43 PM
Boss doesn't want Nonconformances called Nonconformances in Internal Audit Reports piningg ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 72 14th March 2012 07:56 PM
Escalating Minor Nonconformances into Major Nonconformances ashley.surrey ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9 21st June 2010 01:22 PM
Difference between a Registered User and an Involved User moiraknows Forum News and General Information 16 21st February 2008 08:19 AM



The time now is 07:28 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



Misc. Internal Links


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"