The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

PDCA (Plan Do Check Act) vs. DMAIC (Define Measure Analyze Improve Control)

Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links

Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Standards Organization - ISO Standards and Information

International Quality Services

Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum

Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

Related Topic Tags
dmaic (define measure analyze improve control), pdca cycle (plan do check act), six sigma (general)
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 3.00 average. Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 9th October 2001, 08:21 AM

Total Posts: 47
Please Help! PDCA (Plan Do Check Act) vs. DMAIC (Define Measure Analyze Improve Control)

Although only 30 years old, I tend to lean my quality styles to the old tried and true methods. I track continual improvement issues under a PDCA format. A management group recently observed this report. They (management) are caught up in the six sigma buzz, requested that I report on issues in the DMAIC format.

What's the fundamental difference? Are both not methods of continual improvement? Or are the deep philosophical differences between the two? Is one more appropriate under a certain set of conditions than the other?

Help me understand the differences.

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 9th October 2001, 08:53 AM
Marc's Avatar

Total Posts: 25,226
The Hat

I found this - I'll leave the explaining to the experts... In my eyes, they're the same thing with different labels.

As far as the PDCA, see *** DEAD LINK REMOVED *** for some details.

The concept of the PDCA Cycle was originally developed by Walter Shewhart, the pioneering statistician who developed statistical process control in the Bell Laboratories in the US during the 1930's. It is often referred to as `the Shewhart Cycle'. It was taken up and promoted very effectively from the 1950s on by the famous Quality Management authority, W. Edwards Deming, and is consequently known by many as `the Deming Wheel'.

Plan to improve your operations first by finding out what things are going wrong (that is identify the problems faced), and come up with ideas for solving these problems.

Do changes designed to solve the problems on a small or experimental scale first. This minimises disruption to routine activity while testing whether the changes will work or not.

Check whether the small scale or experimental changes are achieving the desired result or not. Also, continuously Check nominated key activities (regardless of any experimentation going on) to ensure that you know what the quality of the output is at all times to identify any new problems when they crop up.

Act to implement changes on a larger scale if the experiment is successful. This means making the changes a routine part of your activity. Also Act to involve other persons (other departments, suppliers, or customers) affected by the changes and whose cooperation you need to implement them on a larger scale, or those who may simply benefit from what you have learned (you may, of course, already have involved these people in the Do or trial stage).
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 9th October 2001, 10:33 AM
Al Dyer

Total Posts: n/a

Maybe an opinion that will be shot down,

6S is nothing more than process improvement. Many companies are investing alot of maney to prove they are 6s when there are already similar processes that have been around for years. One I like is Ford's Q.O.S..

Why spend extra money when we should all be doing this in the first place, process measurables and result measurables provide the data needed for any company to assess their standing and needs.

Now waiting for the fallout, although it won't change my mind.
  Post Number #4  
Old 10th October 2001, 06:56 AM
Alan Greatbatch

Total Posts: 28
Thumbs up

I have been working with TQM since the late eighties and PDCA has always been at the heart of the philosophy. From this philosophy the company I worked with at the time expanded the PDCA cycle to an 8 step process for problem solving and continuous improvement but never lost it roots from the Deming Cycle. It was defined as:

1. Define the Problem
2. Implement/Verify Interim Action¨
3. Aquire and Analyse Data
4. Determine Root Cause(s)
5. Evaluate Possible Solutions

6. Implement

7. Verify the Results

8. Standardise and Future Actions

This approach seems to tie PDCA and DMAIC together quite nicely.

I have been using this system very succesfully for nearly 15 years in 6 different companies and in 3 different European countries.

I am a naturally lazy guy so I am always on the look out for tools that makes my job easier. I have never seen an easier tool that can incorporate all other tools, I have never been shown a better approach and I have never found anyone one to criticise it. Also customers love it as a Corrective Action Report. Just ensure that Step 1 is weakness focused, succinct and does not suggest a cause.

More info available if required.

  Post Number #5  
Old 18th October 2001, 06:29 PM

Total Posts: 16
Lightbulb Re: PDCA vs. DMAIC


Since 1998 we are training Six Sigma Green/Black Belts through the PDCA cycle. Definitely there are no differences between them.

Whirlpool of Brazil, Johnsonn & Johnsonn of Brazil, International Motors of Brazil and a great number of firms have their personnel trained with us through the PDCA cycle. All our products are "PDCA based", including "Six Sigma Black Belts".

Perhaps a little more time is needed for the business world to fully understand that there are no differences between them.

Cristián Carranza
Senior Consultant
Fundação de Desenvolvimento Gerencial - Brazil
  Post Number #6  
Old 28th May 2004, 12:20 PM
Marc's Avatar

Total Posts: 25,226
Just wondering if anyone has anything to add to this...
  Post Number #7  
Old 28th May 2004, 12:42 PM
RoxaneB's Avatar

Total Posts: 2,953
PDCA I is a well-established methodology within my organization.

DMAIC I know little about, but looking at what it stands for, I'm seeing the following associations:

Define = Plan
Measure = Do
Analyze = Check
Improve = Act
Control = ????

I have said before that there can be no improvement without standardization. Is that what the Control equates to, then? established process/practice?
  Post Number #8  
Old 28th May 2004, 01:52 PM
Icy Mountain's Avatar
Icy Mountain

Total Posts: 891
There you go...You got it!

The Control part is institutionalizing the change. In my book, this is the Act part. Once you have Checked and made sure that the Do that you Planned is an actual improvement, then you Act to make the change standard and controlled.

In Six Sigma methodology, this includes a continuing analysis of the Change via Dashboard metrics, etc. to make sure that the change stays stable.

Paraphrased from Six Sigma for Managers, Greg Blue
Consider Y = some function of X
Define = Identify important problems in your processes.
Measure = Select Critical to Quality (CTQ) characteristics in the product or process, define performance standards, validate measurement system, establish process capability (Y)
Analyze = Define improvement objectives, identify variation sources, screen potential causes for change (Y) and identify vital fiew (X)
Improve = Discover variable relationships among vital few, extablish operating tolerances, validate measurement system (X)
Control = Determine ability to control vital few, implement process control system on vital few (X)

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Monitor, Measure, and Analyze Processes? ISO 9001 Clause 4.1.e and 8.2.3 EJE0622 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8 25th July 2008 08:25 AM
Training Video/ video clips for PDCA (Plan - Do - Check - Act) YKT Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 11 27th October 2007 05:21 PM
Six Sigma DMAIC (Define - Measure - Analyze - Improve - Control) program Q rex Six Sigma 1 16th July 2001 11:56 AM
Define Final Inspection Requirements on the Control Plan? Al Dyer Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1 19th October 2000 10:52 AM
PDCA - Plan Do Check Act Cycle - What is PDCA? Karen Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 3 25th February 2000 12:28 PM

The time now is 01:55 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"