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ISO 9001 - Gigantic waste or Beneficial? Why does ISO 9001 exist? Got data/facts?


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  Post Number #1  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:10 AM
damian

 
 
Total Posts: 19
Spin! ISO 9001 - Gigantic waste or Beneficial? Why does ISO 9001 exist? Got data/facts?

If ever proof were needed as to how non-value adding ISO 9000 is, one need look no further than this forum. To see such a huge expenditure of time and energy spent over the interpretation and application of clauses and requirements, certification issues, approaches and the like - all of which adds little if any value to the customer - shows why acceptance of this standard is now floundering. Pure muda!

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  Post Number #2  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:19 AM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 25,771
Question

Were that it were all that simple. What do you base your comment on? Have you numbers or other evidence to show or is one to accept your opinion?

Why did you register? Why are you here?
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  Post Number #3  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:23 AM
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BadgerMan

 
 
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This should be an interesting discussion!
  Post Number #4  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:24 AM
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D.Scott

 
 
Total Posts: 1,592
Hi Damian - welcome to the Cove.

Your point is quite common on this and other threads but we always seem to come back to the same questions on this topic.
1) Is it the Standard which is causing the problem or is it the bureaucracy surrounding it?
2) Isn't there a benefit of a good QMS to both company and customer?
3) Is the acceptance of the Standard really floundering or is the certification process floundering.

Good post and good subject - I await some input from the others on this.

Take a look through some of the other topics - there are some great discussions on this and related topics.

Dave
  Post Number #5  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:27 AM
damian

 
 
Total Posts: 19
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

Were that it were all that simple. What do you base your comment on? Have you numbers or other evidence to show or is one to accept your opinion?

Why did you bother to register? Why are you here?
Sorry, I think it is that simple. All that really counts is the core process that converts the needs of customers into cash in the bank. The organization and its system should all be helping the core process to add value faster (for customers) and prevent losses sooner (for investors). I don't see how demonstrating conformity to requirements, expending energy trying to figure out what clauses or requirements mean to satisfy a certification body, or working to achieve local optimization via a "process approach," in any way shape or form adds value.
  Post Number #6  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:32 AM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 25,771
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by D.Scott

1) Is it the Standard which is causing the problem or is it the bureaucracy surrounding it?
2) Isn't there a benefit of a good QMS to both company and customer?
3) Is the acceptance of the Standard really floundering or is the certification process floundering.
Good summary, Dave! There is also the added dimension of Chris Parrish's 'petition' to the ISO folks to do something about falling numbers of 'new' registrations... Maybe I ought to do a For It - Against It poll...
  Post Number #7  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:36 AM
damian

 
 
Total Posts: 19
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

Good summary, Dave! There is also the added dimension of Chris Parrish's 'petition' to the ISO folks to do something about falling numbers of 'new' registrations... Maybe I ought to do a For It - Against It poll...

Why are registrations and their numbers even important? What do registrations have to do with value? Why do people even expend energy monitoring ISO 9000 registration trends that as if it were some sort of "seal of approval" on the value of the standard. Is not the only real measure the customer and how well their needs have been met?
  Post Number #8  
Old 15th April 2004, 09:39 AM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 25,771
Hehehe...

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by damian

Sorry, I think it is that simple. All that really counts is the core process that converts the needs of customers into cash in the bank. The organization and its system should all be helping the core process to add value faster (for customers) and prevent losses sooner (for investors). I don't see how demonstrating conformity to requirements, expending energy trying to figure out what clauses or requirements mean to satisfy a certification body, or working to achieve local optimization via a "process approach," in any way shape or form adds value.
This is an arguement I and many others have made for years - Nothing new here. ISO 9001 is basically just good business practices that most companies already have 'implemented' in some fashion. Most have some form of customer satisfaction barometer even if it's not a documented system, for example.

To deviate from Dave's path, The question becomes: Why is there an ISO 9001?

Why is it you believe ISO 9001 exists and continues to thrive (in my opinion it's doing quite well in world wide acceptance)?
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