How NCR CAR and ECO Interact - Customer Rejection

[mannym01]

Hi
We are in the process implementing a documentation system. I received a rejection from our customer. Part was made to wrong rev. What would be the proper procedure to follow to correct this. Here's what I did please comment on how to improve.

Customer notifies us part is wrong.
Issue a corrective action report.
- problem, wrong rev
- cause, eng not notified of change (buried in email)

-corrective action, update files to new rev, remake part.
-preventive action, ? other than paying more attention not sure.

Issue a ECO to update rev.

Should I have a nonconforming in here as well?

Thanks

 

[ScottK]

Re: How NCR CAR and ECO interact

Well, there's a million ways to handle it. Here's what my system does:

1. Customer submits an NCR to us using their own NCR system
2. I turn that NCR into a RMA (returned material authorization)
3. When we get the material we analyze the parts and document the analysis on the RMA Form.
4. The RMA may result in a Corrective Action and/or action to prevent recurrence (Preventive Action) which is documented on a Corrective and/or Preventive action form. This may result in a drawing or procedue change handled via a DCR (Document Change Record)
5. We send a formal response to the customer documenting what we did and any actions that resulted.

All of this is covered in three procedures - RMA Procedure, CAPA procedure, Document Control Procedure.

in your particular case, using my system, I would issue a corretive action to engineering to document and correct the nonconformity.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: How NCR CAR and ECO interact

<snip>Here's what I did. Please comment on how to improve correct.

Customer notifies us part is wrong.
Issue a corrective action report.
- problem, wrong rev
- cause, eng not notified of change (buried in email)

Your actions are NOT improvements. What you are suggesting is an attempt to correct the situation. You need ask WHY a few more times. The fact(?) that engineering was not notified of the change is only a SYMPTOM and not a root cause...

Hope this clarifies.

Stijloor.

 

[DrM2u]

Re: How NCR CAR and ECO interact

Customer notifies us part is wrong.
Issue a corrective action report.
- problem, wrong rev
- cause, eng not notified of change (buried in email)

-corrective action, update files to new rev, remake part.
-preventive action, ? other than paying more attention not sure.

Issue a ECO to update rev.

Not to sound too critical but I have to say that the response is poor and personally would not accept it if I were the customer. Like Stijloor indicated you are addressing the simptom that you are seeing, which is OK for the short run. However you need to perform an in-depth root cause analysis in order to take effective action(s) to prevent this from happening again. IMHO I suggest to put together a team of people to help solve this. Select members who are directly involved in the process. After that, follow Stijloor's advice and ask WHY many times until you reach a dead end (a.k.a. root cause). Look at the problem from prevention, detection and occurence mode points of view. Why wasn't this prevented? Why wasn't this detected? Why did it take place? You'll be in good shape after you go through these exercises.

Should I have a nonconforming in here as well?

I am not sure what a 'nonconforming' is to you. Are you talking about 'nonconforming material' or 'nonconformance'? You know the answer to the first one. For the second, the simple fact that you have a problem (opportunity to improve) means that you have a nonconformance (discrepancy between actual and requirement).

 

[mannym01]

I am not sure what a 'nonconforming' is to you. Are you talking about 'nonconforming material' or 'nonconformance'?

I'm talking nonconforming material report, being that this was picked up by the customer would we fill one out for ourselves?
Scott has clearified this for me, what I'm missing is an RMA. Which would result in a Corrective Action Report.

Not to sound too critical

I don't mind the critisism, This is my first step in trying to get some documentation going, I've looked at some sample forms and am trying to see how they would be used together.

 

[DrM2u]

I'm talking nonconforming material report, being that this was picked up by the customer would we fill one out for ourselves?

Most organizations use a formal RMA/RGA system to control product returned from customers and/or to suppliers. This is done for a variety of reasons, one main reason being control of NC product and the other being accounting (invoives, credits, etc).

Scott has clearified this for me, what I'm missing is an RMA. Which would result in a Corrective Action Report.

It depends on your NC Product & CA/PA procedures whether or not the RMA will automatically trigger a CAR. Just because Scott or I would say that an RMA triggers a CAR it does not mean that's how things should be. The procedures have to make sense to your organization and be compliant with the requirements of the applicable standard(s).

I don't mind the critisism, This is my first step in trying to get some documentation going, I've looked at some sample forms and am trying to see how they would be used together.

I am sure you'll find plenty of examples of RGA, CAPA and Change Control procedures in the Cove. Good luck!