Customer 8D

[prabhudv]

Hello
Can Tier2 request Tier1 to provide a copy their completed 8D to OEM? We have a situation where our Tier1 customer is charging thousands of dollars as sort cost at OEM.
Details are not being shared except for cost that is being passed to us. Appreciate any practical advise
Thanks and Regards

 

[Miner]

You can always ask, but your customer can always say no. You will probably have better luck requesting the customer itemize all their charges (e.g., hours spent, rate, quantity of units inspected, quantity nonconforming, etc.) rather than submit a lump chargeback. However, your customer may simply refuse, and if you refuse to pay, they can withhold it from their payment for your product. Of course you can refuse to provide said product, but that will end up in a badly damaged relationship.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Details are not being shared except for cost that is being passed to us

So, based on what I understand from your post, the OEM found defective products from Tier 1 supplier who is blaming you, Tier 2 for the problem since you are being charged for the sorting operation. And, according to your post, you have no idea of what is wrong with the product since you received no Corrective Action Request from your customer (Tier 1)

It is hard to believe your customer has not formally told you what is the problem with your product. Like being convicted of a crime nobody defines.

 

[optomist1]

most OEMs and by extension Tier 1s maintain a Warranty Return Center; where "failed/discrepant" supplier parts can be examined...and usually the associated "paperwork" is available as well. It has been my experience on both sides of the OEM & Tier 1/2 (especially at the point of manufacture), there is a rush to root cause and move the units out the door, to meet production quotas. Hope this helps, echoing those above, ask, ask ask...

 

[prabhudv]

So, based on what I understand from your post, the OEM found defective products from Tier 1 supplier who is blaming you, Tier 2 for the problem since you are being charged for the sorting operation. And, according to your post, you have no idea of what is wrong with the product since you received no Corrective Action Request from your customer (Tier 1)

It is hard to believe your customer has not formally told you what is the problem with your product. Like being convicted of a crime nobody defines.

Hello
We know the concern and corrected it. Problem is the sort hours and charges are not inline with the quantities and sort times. They are 100X. Sort details and findings are not shared. we are in blind what they are checking, why it taking so many hours, what are the findings

 

[prabhudv]

most OEMs and by extension Tier 1s maintain a Warranty Return Center; where "failed/discrepant" supplier parts can be examined...and usually the associated "paperwork" is available as well. It has been my experience on both sides of the OEM & Tier 1/2 (especially at the point of manufacture), there is a rush to root cause and move the units out the door, to meet production quotas. Hope this helps, echoing those above, ask, ask ask...

Production concern, not warranty. Hoping my customer will provide some details. Will keep asking

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Hello
We know the concern and corrected it. Problem is the sort hours and charges are not inline with the quantities and sort times. They are 100X. Sort details and findings are not shared. we are in blind what they are checking, why it taking so many hours, what are the findings

If your nonconforming parts have been assembled on to a higher level assembly, there might be time spent to disassemble and reassemble the hardware. At the end of the day, any business relationship should be transparent and the QMP of mutually beneficial relationship should thrive. If your customer is being that opaque with you, the relationship is tainted.

 

[starwind]

First, what was the root cause of this issue? Who is responsible? Tier 1 (your customer) or tier 2 (your company).

If former, then the 8D from tier 1 (your customer) shall conclude the RC; in this case, your company (tier 2) shall not be charged or not even required to be informed.

If latter, the cost will go to you. But quite often, the rate is defined in supplier agreement. e.g. labour per hour. It is reasonable for you (tier 2) to request a cost breakdown, but it is unlikely to obtain an 8D report since this report will point to tier 2 as the RC. Furthermore, the tier 1 8D report shall be constructed heavily based on your 8D report (sent to tier 1).

Therefore, requesting a tier 1 8D report will not be helpful to your company at all. Note: the cost may be negotiable, or your company can participate in the corrections (containment action) to save some cost. If unfairness persists, you may send quality personnel to involve with the corrections, which provide you with better sight.

 

[prabhudv]

Thank you to everyone for your valuable inputs