Ok, good point.
But, if the other clauses\questions are not answered how can you really determine that the supplier is providing (or impacting) something that is product or service?
"Impacting" is your word. It is not in the standard.
Ok, good point.
But, if the other clauses\questions are not answered how can you really determine that the supplier is providing (or impacting) something that is product or service?
That's the kind of convoluted thinking that creates so much resentment on the implementation of the standard by so many people. In my assessment, these concerns are totally irrelevant to the question and doubt of the OP.
I totally agree that maintenance of lawn is not something that we need to control as per 8.4 for a manufacturing company. But should be in the case of a golf course organization. However, maintenance services provider of production machines and equipment, I believe, fall in the statements under 8.4.1c where it specifies "The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products and services when: c) a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization".
ISO/TS 9002:2016 in its 8.4.1 guidelines has the statement below:
View attachment 25964
I totally agree that maintenance of lawn is not something that we need to control as per 8.4 for a manufacturing company. But should be in the case of a golf course organization. However, maintenance services provider of production machines and equipment, I believe, fall in the statements under 8.4.1c where it specifies "The organization shall determine the controls to be applied to externally provided processes, products and services when: c) a process, or part of a process, is provided by an external provider as a result of a decision by the organization".
ISO/TS 9002:2016 in its 8.4.1 guidelines has the statement below:
View attachment 25964
I respectfully disagree. It's a system. Context should be considered.
Should is not a requirement. Should is a recommendation. In this case, evidently your recommendation.
Don't go making requirements that the standard doesn't.
FWIW, my goal is to have an effective system. Anyone has the right to ignore my 'recommendation'.
"4.1 Understanding the Organization and Its Context
The organization shall determine external and internal issues that are relevant to its purpose and its strategic direction and that affect its ability to achieve the intended result(s) of its quality management system."
The question that triggered this thread was very straight forward:FWIW, my goal is to have an effective system. Anyone has the right to ignore my 'recommendation'
The OP was not asking if it would add value if the maintenance contractors be controlled as per 8.4. He did not ask if it would be a good idea to formally approve them, either.is the maintenance contractor company considered an external provider subject to clause 8.4?