10 PPM or Lower at the Customer by 2010

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#21
I wish I could post some current real world numbers about a low ppm and punishment, but we get beat up by automotive if there is one piece with anything that looks like it might cause a problem. The people using our parts are not cutting any slack. We have a low ppm, but what we need to satisfy this customer plant is Zero (0) ppm. Any ppm is not acceptable.
Exactly. One would think that meeting the requirement of x PPM would mean that anything defective within that margin would be, at worst, returned and debited. Not so, of course. The automotive customers will beat you over the head whether you make the target or not. If they have no rational reason to beat you over the head, they'll blame their own design errors on you. I have felt the pain, believe me.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#22
Helmut and Jim,

Great discussion! I am very impressed. While one can argue about the merits and costs of going from 40 ppm to 10 ppm, the big question still is (to quote Dr. W. Edwards Deming) "by what method?" The OP said: (Quote) "Our European president has decided to start a program "10/10", meaning that he wants to achieve 10PPM or lower at the customer by 2010 (we average around 40 at the moment)."
A great example of stating an expectation and not much thought given to how to accomplish this. I still keep "Out of the Crisis" handy. The more I (continue) to read this, the more I realize that not much has changed when the Master wrote his book in 1982.

What do you think?

Stijloor.

Well, much has changed on the performance side. But, much more remains on the management side.

For example, few companies had 10 or 40ppm when Deming was active. 1000+ was common. Now, the average company can be better than 100. So, performance has improved tremendously.

At the same time, all the focus has been on the shop floor. The managers and the engineering processes still have many problems. Not enough focus is applied to improving and re-engineering Management, Engineering, Training and IT. These continue to hurt us. The people may be bright, but even bright people need bright systems, and that is where we fall down.
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#23
Well, much has changed on the performance side. But, much more remains on the management side.

For example, few companies had 10 or 40ppm when Deming was active. 1000+ was common. Now, the average company can be better than 100. So, performance has improved tremendously.

At the same time, all the focus has been on the shop floor. The managers and the engineering processes still have many problems. Not enough focus is applied to improving and re-engineering Management, Engineering, Training and IT. These continue to hurt us.
Hi Helmut,

Exactly! Great points. Yes, technology and better manufacturing systems have certainly driven improvement (or, are we better at catching defects?).
It's interesting to compare internal ppm with outgoing ppm.

Deming's message was mainly directed towards management. Much to be done, still.

Stijloor.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#24
....Deming's message was mainly directed towards management. Much to be done, still.

Stijloor.
Deming suggested 80% of failures are caused by the system, not by operators.

Today, 40 years later, I would point out that Management owns the systems, and still about 80% of the root causes I see can be attributed to management...

Different situations sometimes, but the stats have not improved. We simply do not focus enough attention to the front office and top management. Costs us BILLIONS of dollars per year in US industry.:mg:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#25
Deming suggested 80% of failures are caused by the system, not by operators.

Today, 40 years later, I would point out that Management owns the systems, and still about 80% of the root causes I see can be attributed to management...

Different situations sometimes, but the stats have not improved. We simply do not focus enough attention to the front office and top management. Costs us BILLIONS of dollars per year in US industry.:mg:
Helmut,

Wall Street rules! As long as the powers in charge get rewarded for financial performance (short-term gain at the expense of a long-term vision), quality will always be a distant second. I have yet to see PPM in a financial report.

And so it goes. It will not change. But we in the quality profession will continue to do our best.

Stijloor.
 
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