100% Inspection - 80% Accurate - Quote from Juran (?)

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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
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#71
Esoteric, Philosophical and / or Technical Posts Welcome

> At the risk of getting too esoteric or philosophical

Not a problem.

Yes - I understand these issues and the physics involved. And one can use philosophy to explain certain things and to produce some arguements along the lines of what we 'see' is - well, we really can't say because we can't know what is real and what is not. Unfortunately, philosophy can take things to the extreme of "...do we even exist or are we some part of the imagination of someone else or something else..."

My major in college was biology with minors in chemistry and anthropology. My senior thesis was on neuron cell dendrite to dendrite and axon to axon connections - which in the 1970's was poorly understood. The context was always axon to dendrite. The purpose and interaction of dendrite to dendrite connections, for example, was just starting to be investigated. I have a relatively strong background in human physiology and biological processes to the molecular 'engine' level.

> The picture that we see, however, is not out there, but
> totally in our heads. There is really no way of knowing
> what the world "really" looks like.

For me what ties together the validity that what we see is pretty close to what is there is that two people can look at the same object or scene and each will describe the same basics. So even if you and I 'really' see (for example) the color (frequency) red differently, we will both describe it as 'red' because that's what we learned as youths. There are some interesting studies in colour blindness which also come to bear on issues like this.

Secondarily is tactile feedback of the nervous system to certain things. Stick your hand in a fire and I'll bet it won't be there very long. I do not believe this is solely a part of a system of learned response. If you interview someone who has been badly burned they will argue pretty strongly that the pain and tissue destruction is real and not a figment of someone elses imagination.

One thing I did learn that I think is really interesting is that the spinal cord its self learns. Responses to certain stimuli over time bypass the brain entirely. In some cases the brain is 'notified' of the stimuli-reaction 'event', but with some stimuli the brain doesn't get so much as an e-mail to let it know the stimuli-reaction 'event' took place - the routing is entirely limited to the spinal cord.

Bring on the esoteric, philosophical and/or technical talk any time. I'm ready!
 
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J

John Finn

#72
Hi Marc,
Thank you for your encouraging response. You obviously know more about the science of this phenomenon than I do. (My undergraduate degree is in electrical engineering).

I, of course, believe that we have to behave based on the information that we receive from our senses. Otherwise, we wouldn't survive. There is also obviously a correspondence between what we see and "reality" or we couldn't function. The fact that we all appear to see things the same way, however, doesn't mean that we see it correctly (whatever that is), only that our brains, if functioning properly, work the same way.

I don't mean to imply anything mystical. I believe that reality exists, we are not dreaming, we are not somebody else's dream, etc. It's just the idea that we can function so effectively with what is essentially a series of pictures in our head that fascinates me.

I also have to confess that I/m trying to get enough posts to get out of the "shy" category. Thank you for the interesting conversation!
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#73
I don't know if you believe in evolution - I know many people do not - but I'm a believer. From humans to roaches to porposes to shrimp. All have evolved (some may use the term adapatation) some wonderful 'features'.

> I also have to confess that I'm trying to get enough posts
> to get out of the "shy" category.

Go to the UserCP and then click on 'User Profile'. In there you will see where it says: "Custom User Text". Put anything you want in the box that says "New Title". Then 'Submit' the changes. That should make the 'shy' title go away.
 
J

John Finn

#74
Evolution

The beauty of this medium: self-directed evolution, from "shy' contributor to "Red Sox Fan", although some might call that "de-volution"! Thank you for the advice.

I don't think that it is possible to be a scientist/engineer without believing in evolution. Even understanding how the process works does not take away the wonder of it all.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#75
Red Sox Fan is alright by me!! It's a tough job and someone has to do it!!(I do my part)

Another tidbit in regards the 'devolution' of this thread. Our senses give us feedback, data and information that our mind must process. While we can learn to keep our hands out of the fire by sticking it into a flame (movement), we can learn through other means and self reflection that sticking our hand into a fire will cause us pain (motivation).

Pop behaviorism is the belief that our worlds and behavior are shaped in our minds through external forces. B.F. Skinner, a late Bostonian, promoted this thinking. However, this is being challenged by another Massachusen, residing outside of Boston, named Alfie Kohn. His message is pretty powerful and his evidence staggering.

In regards M Greenaway's post, Deming's view on 100% inspection and his harshness was founded on his disappointment with the US reliance on the use of sampling plans (the same plans he helped to develop for use during the war) after WW2. These plans were created to help expedite the inspection process as well as reducing the expense of time and money to the producer. They were also created to improve detection of defective product/lots since inspectors and methods for 100% inspection where fatigue, gage error & maintenance, and manipulation errors were found to contribute to higher error rates.

50+ years later, we are still highly dependent on "detection." Many QMS standards are still very suggestive of inspection over process controls. While this fueled Deming's concern, he certainly acknowledged that inspection was inevitable in certain situations (he used the example of computer chip inspection for rating the chip's speed). He was quoted as saying, "Do 100% inspection, or do no inspection at all."

Deming suggests, "Routine 100 percent inspection to improve quality is the equivalent to planning for defects, acknowledgement that the process has not the capability required for the specifications. Inspection to improve quality is too late, ineffective, costly." OTC, page 28

What he wanted was for management to pursue quality through process improvement and preventive actions. Toyota and many other Japanese organizations use this method, much to the detriment of Western organizations and industries (Toyota requires certain workers to wear white work coats. Reason: when Western visitors ask, "Where are your inspectors?" they point out the folks in white. This came about because Western visitors did not accept that Toyota's high quality came without the assistance of teams of inspectors). Sadly, in my opinion, our transition is painfully slow. We have to rely on inspection because we do not develop systems and supplier relationships that will allow us to eliminate inspection. Reason: the time commitment to supplier and process development neccessary to supplant inspection is too long for short term profiteers!!

Regards,

Kevin (CT Sox Fan:bonk: :)
 
J

John Finn

#76
Perceived Need for Inspection

Kevin,

It's always a pleasure to make acquaintance with another sox fan. Could there be a connection between the frustration of being a sox fan and the frustrations of the quality life? By the way, I thought that everyone in CT was a Yankee fan!

Your comments got me to thinking a little about why the Japanese (and some American firms) can eliminate inspectors and still achieve high quality results. I don't believe that it's a matter of process or training or knowledge, but more of attitude and trust. Management trusts people to do the job right and the people have the attitude of responsibility and ownership that is necessary to make it happen. How do you develop that environment?

Interestingly, many times I have heard even line people express great dread when the idea of eliminating inspection was broached. Yet these same people would be appalled if you suggested that someone should inspect the results of their cooking or the tune-up that they just did on their car or the way they do any of the myriad tasks that they do in their daily lives.

I'd really be interested in hearing ideas on this subject.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#77
We don't have any inspectors. Each operator inspects as a part of his/her job function. Management expects everyone to do the right thing the right way at the right time, and everyone is really conscientous about it. There is an obvious show of pride and ownership among our operators. I know that it doesn't always work that way in every company, but in all the divisions I've worked for here it works every time. I think I've said it before, but it is a culture kind of thing. If people are trusted and given the responsibility and authority, they usually meet the challange. I think that given the opportunity, most people will live up to, or down to what is expected of them if the expectations are realisic.
 
E

energy

#78
Re: Perceived Need for Inspection

Originally posted by John Finn
Kevin,
It's always a pleasure to make acquaintance with another sox fan. Could there be a connection between the frustration of being a sox fan and the frustrations of the quality life? By the way, I thought that everyone in CT was a Yankee fan!
Only North of Kevin's town!:rolleyes: They beat up Red Sox fans where we are! :vfunny:

We also do not have Inspectors here. Just me. It takes an Inspector to properly fill out records. Most assemblers and general laborers could care less about filling out paperwork. As long as there is someone who can provide accurate records, you don't need Inspectors. Therein lies the rub. Long Live Inspectors! Inspectors Rule!:ko: :smokin:
 
J

John Finn

#79
Inspectors

Energy,

I'll be sure to stay away from Naugatuck! By the way, some of my best friends are inspectors.:truce:
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#80
Energy works in New Britain, once the home of the Red Sox triple A team. It may not be a coincidence that the Sox left with a heckler nearby!! Now I am concerned about my favorite hot dog vendor!!:eek: :biglaugh:

SteelMaiden wrote: If people are trusted and given the responsibility and authority, they usually meet the challenge.

I agree with this statement. However, senior management needs to guard against the delegation of duties/responsibilities that should not be. Too often duties are delegated and the consequences (negative) are left for the worker to bear.

John wrote: Management trusts people to do the job right and the people have the attitude of responsibility and ownership that is necessary to make it happen. How do you develop that environment? (in reference to the Japanese)

I believe the clear distinction between the Japanese workforce and the Western workforce is this: understanding what their work means. This comes from the education of the workforce and customer focus. Management trust comes from two way feedback and the elimination of fear in the workplace (reprisal for giving negative feedback). Here in the States, you only bring the boss the good news!! Where fear is present, you will find manipulated figures and distrust.

Well, just a bit to get things stirred up again…

Regards,

Kevin
 
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