1st, 2nd and 3rd Party Audits - Definition

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#1
Hi All -

I thought I would start this thread to clear my mind on what a 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audit is. My confusion stems from some confusing posts and threads about contracting internal auditors, and then refering to them as 3rd party.

Here is my definition

1st party - A regular, full or part time employee of the company.

2nd party - An independent contractor hired by the company to perform internal audits.

3rd party - An auditor employed by the Registrar to perform registration and surveliance audits.


I looked in the Wiki for this definition and couldn't find anything. Maybe after discussion we can add.

Thanks all!!
 
J

jem63

Guest
#2
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

Hiring an auditor to perform your internal audits would still be considered an internal 1st party audit.

a 2nd party audit would be an audit by a commercial consumer.
 

GStough

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

Hi CarolX, :bigwave:

An addition: 2nd party can also include supplier audits, as I understand it.

:cool:
 

BradM

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
#4
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

Good idea, Carol.

Paraphrased from the ASQ CQA primer:

INTERNAL:
First party audit are typically internal audits.

EXTERNAL:
Second party audits typically involve the customer auditing the supplier.

Third party audits are done by "outsiders", and have no affiliation with the auditee.
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

What Brad posted are the classical definitions.

However the water's muddied a little, when people like me, do audits of clients' quality systems instead of them using their own employees (because, really we're '3 party' auditors - we are paid just like them, we aren't on the organization's 'payroll' and we aren't their customer, either).

Maybe it's time to change the definitions?
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Involved in Discussions
#6
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

Here's what I teach:

1st Party - An internal audit that an organization performs on itself

2nd Party - An external audit that an organization performs on a supplier of goods or services

3rd Party - An external audit that is conducted by an independant organization upon another organization.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

when people like me, do audits of clients' quality systems instead of them using their own employees (because, really we're '3 party' auditors - we are paid just like them, we aren't on the organization's 'payroll' and we aren't their customer, either).

Maybe it's time to change the definitions?
No, but you are "rented" to take the place of an employee for the duration of the audit. Not to say that the definitions couldn't be tweaked, but is there really a value in it?
 

Randy

Quite Involved in Discussions
Involved in Discussions
#9
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

What Brad posted are the classical definitions.

However the water's muddied a little, when people like me, do audits of clients' quality systems instead of them using their own employees (because, really we're '3 party' auditors - we are paid just like them, we aren't on the organization's 'payroll' and we aren't their customer, either).

Maybe it's time to change the definitions?

In reality to any org being audited by an independant outside entity it is a 3rd party relationship regardless of reason
 

CarolX

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#10
Re: Definition of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party audits

What Brad posted are the classical definitions.

However the water's muddied a little, when people like me, do audits of clients' quality systems instead of them using their own employees (because, really we're '3 party' auditors - we are paid just like them, we aren't on the organization's 'payroll' and we aren't their customer, either).

Maybe it's time to change the definitions?
Andy - this is what I thought a 2nd party audit was - but now reading the replies - I understand why this is considered a 1st party audit.

Maybe we can get Scott to add this to the Wiki.
 
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