S
Lucinda,
"You can contract this out to an outside auditor. Nothing says that the audit you conduct for your own internal benefit has to be done by the company's own staff members. But you cannot use the registrar!!"
Where is it stated that you cannot use a registrar as an internal auditor, if they agree to accept the responsibility.
"The registrar's function is to verify that your QMS is working as the standard dictates. It cannot participate in the operations of your QMS. (and this is what they would be doing if they are essentially performing the internal audits for you) Remember??? This hits to the core of "vested interest". "
I don't understand your point here. Do they participate differently in a surveillance audit vs an internal audit.
"They are not (supposed) to consult, they are a disinterested third party."
I agree. No auditor; 1st, 2nd, or 3rd party should consult during the audit process. First they are not qualified and second, what ever they offer is only there own personal opinion.
However the standard (QS9000) has overridden the consulting issue by allowing (requiring) the auditors to submit "opportunities for improvement" (consulting tips).
So, the consulting issue, for QS is moot point.
IMHO

"You can contract this out to an outside auditor. Nothing says that the audit you conduct for your own internal benefit has to be done by the company's own staff members. But you cannot use the registrar!!"
Where is it stated that you cannot use a registrar as an internal auditor, if they agree to accept the responsibility.
"The registrar's function is to verify that your QMS is working as the standard dictates. It cannot participate in the operations of your QMS. (and this is what they would be doing if they are essentially performing the internal audits for you) Remember??? This hits to the core of "vested interest". "
I don't understand your point here. Do they participate differently in a surveillance audit vs an internal audit.
"They are not (supposed) to consult, they are a disinterested third party."
I agree. No auditor; 1st, 2nd, or 3rd party should consult during the audit process. First they are not qualified and second, what ever they offer is only there own personal opinion.
However the standard (QS9000) has overridden the consulting issue by allowing (requiring) the auditors to submit "opportunities for improvement" (consulting tips).
So, the consulting issue, for QS is moot point.
IMHO
