5 Why's Help Needed

TacitBlue

Involved In Discussions
Need to help with my 5 why's. Does this look okay? Any help is appreciated.

Problem: The ENG0002 Form, Rev. D does not include a *BPR review number and is designated as N/A; additional investigation revealed that no proof of a BPR review was conducted is on file.

WHY1: Without completing the BPR review process, the document was released to All Business Processes (our main procedure library).

WHY2: There was no peer review to ensure that the document had completed the BPR process.

WHY3: The staff (responsible doc control staff) was not notified that the document had been uploaded to All Business Processes.

WHY4: Staff are not required to complete document peer reviews prior to posting to the library, nor are they set up to receive notifications within SharePoint when a document is posted to the library.

WHY5: DOC0013 (our doc control procedure) does not require that notifications be sent to staff or that a peer review be carried out prior to posting documents to the All Business Processes library.

*BPR is our document control review process. A number is always assigned when a document is submitted for review and approval.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Something important is that 5 is not a magic number for determining a root cause.

The concept is based on some ancient oriental philosopher whose name I have long since forgotten, that stated something like "if you ask why enough times you can get to the bottom of the problem".

The number 5 seems to be the most common number, but it may take more or less.

Something to think about is if you can still reasonably ask why you aren't there yet.

Your final why may be sufficient. The real test is can you answer it with a corrective action. How will you address that final why? I suspect you may revise that procedure.

With all that said, you might be making things more complicated for yourself, which is a frequent issue when you make a more complex procedure. Is there an easier way to address the problem that doesn't add complexity to your system. For example the revision might stress keeping it clear while being terse (not using more words than needed).

Anyway, overall you are on the right track but I would still stress the KIS method (Keep It Simple).
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
Some ancient oriental philosopher? Are you thinking about Ohno? Toyoda? Or perhaps Shingo?

anyhoo. For the OP: Your ‘5-why’ seems like you are just filling out a form, by yourself. The answers to each ‘why’ are not intended to be the lack of a solution, but a real reason (with objective evidence) for the action taken. Quite simply the 5-why reads like a justification for the solution you want to put in place.
 

Johnnymo62

Haste Makes Waste
Try starting each why with the word because, at least mentally. It helps make sure you are answering the why question.

Why 1: Because the document was released to All Business Processes (our main procedure library) Without completing the BPR review process.
 

Tidge

Trusted Information Resource
Some ancient oriental philosopher? Are you thinking about Ohno? Toyoda? Or perhaps Shingo?

Everyone always forgets the quality stylings of Omar Khayyam, by way of Fitzgerald:
Why, be this Juice the growth of God, who dare
Blaspheme the twisted tendril as a Snare?
A Blessing, we should use it, should we not?
And if a Curse--why, then, Who set it there?
as well as
For "IS" and "IS-NOT" though with Rule and Line,
And, "UP-AND-DOWN" without, I could define,
I yet in all I only cared to know,
Was never deep in anything but--Wine.
 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Leader
Super Moderator
Try starting each why with the word because, at least mentally. It helps make sure you are answering the why question.

Why 1: Because the document was released to All Business Processes (our main procedure library) Without completing the BPR review process.
I prefer other questions than why. It is a fairly weak question. Ask things like “what prompted you to take that action”. Of course that can’t be honestly answered by someone sitting at their desk filling out a form to support their agenda.
 

TacitBlue

Involved In Discussions
5 Why's has always somewhat confused me. I am always unclear at which point of the failure that I start my first "why"?
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Leader
Admin
5 Why's has always somewhat confused me. I am always unclear at which point of the failure that I start my first "why"?
Start with your problem description (not the symptom) and ask the first why. The problem description should contain a specific Object with a specific Defect.
 
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