5D and 8D as an option, can it be both or one of them in the system?

Y

YAZIDM

#1
Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.
Personally I do not know 5D methodology. Most common is 8D , well known in the automotive industry. This is a standards adopted by mostly company, in order to have a common ground on corrective actions process.
My suggestion is to use 8D methodology also for internal purpose in order to be eventually accustomed to do it in case of external issue.Be also prepared in training the personnel and declare it in the documented procedure.:bigwave:
 
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J

JaneB

#3
Hi,
Our system just practice 5D as for our Corrective Action record. Since most of the customer asking for 8D, should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both? My boss is asking can it be both in the procedure since he want the 5D to be used internally.
What are the elements of your 5D procedure?

If you use both, but your customers ask for the 8D one, how will you ensure that you use the 8D one for them? Is this only iif/when they insist?
 
Y

YAZIDM

#4
Hi Jane / qusys,
Actually this is the first time I saw 5D, fyi, I’m the freshie new guy who taking care the QMS.
Our 5D consist;
D1: Define the Problem
D2: Define & Verify the Root Cause(s)
D3: Identify & Verify Proposed Permanent Corrective Action
D4: Implement Permanent Corrective Action
D5: Action to Prevent Re-occurrence

While for 8D;
D1: Identify Team Member/Roles & Responsibilities
D2. Define the Problem
D3. Implement & Verify Interim Containment Actions(s)
D4. Define & Verify Root Cause(s)
D5. Identify & Verify Proposed Permanent Corrective Action(s)
D6. Implement Permanent Corrective Action(s)
D7. Action(s) to Prevent Re-Occurrence
D8. Communicate Results & Recognize Team


As we all well know, nowadays ALL customers demanding 8D. But my supr. asking me whether is it possible to have them both in the system, reason is 5D for internal use and 8D for external. To me, i will agree with qusys....I’m not sure about this.
The procedure only mentions one report that is 5D. My boss wants them both which is ‘as an option’. My concern is will I face any problem in future especially during audits? I believe it’s explainable as what my boss said, but in term of requirement or possibility or necessary maybe logic? Beside "add-in" 8D as an option, should I amend anything on the procedure? Please review attachment. Were gonna arrange Internal audit this coming sept and ISO audit is soon after that.
thanks in advance
 

Attachments

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D

Duke Okes

#5
There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#6
................. should i remove 5D from the procedure and replace it with 8D or is it possible to have both?....................
You had literally paint yourself into a corner or tie your own hands. Your procedures shouldn't be that restrictive. It should just mention the use of appropriate problem solving techniques - bearing in mind that the different techniques or methods are useful into different situations.
 
J

JaneB

#7
There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
Excellent advice, with which I agree.

I don't see it as a divide between 'external' and 'internal' use - why should or would it be. Some issues require a team approach, with others it would be overkill.

Key point is to be clear about who decides which approach is to be used when - eg, a manager deciding (NOT someone deciding on the basis of which is 'easiest'.
 
Y

YAZIDM

#8
There's nothing wrong with using multiple models, but as some have pointed out, people need to know which to use when.

To me the 5D is simply the 8D without use of a team. Many problems do not require a team.
Duke,
I guess i'll agree with that, not all problem req a team. it does make sense
 
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