7.3 Design and 7.4 Purchasing - Creating the procedure

J

Japio

#1
Greetings,

I have a question concerning 'purchasing' and 'design and development'.

We scan documents and do some data entry into a database using our own software. We also make once in a while software which our customers can use to retrieve this data.

We purchase office articles, paper, sometimes a computer with screen. And perhaps a new scanner if one the current ones doesn't do the job anymore (a rare occasion).

I quess that i can't exclude 'purchasing' because of this one scanner which basically produces one part of the product. I'm i right about this?

If i can't exclude, can someone get me started with creating the procedure?

And can someone help me giving me a picture or examples on how to set up the procedure for 7.4? Software is the only thing we develop.

Thank you.
 
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Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Rope, Soap, and Dope

Japio said:
Greetings,

I have a question concerning 'purchasing' and 'design and development'.

We scan documents and do some data entry into a database using our own software. We also make once in a while software which our customers can use to retrieve this data.

We purchase office articles, paper, sometimes a computer with screen. And perhaps a new scanner if one the current ones doesn't do the job anymore (a rare occasion).

I quess that i can't exclude 'purchasing' because of this one scanner which basically produces one part of the product. I'm i right about this?

If i can't exclude, can someone get me started with creating the procedure?

And can someone help me giving me a picture or examples on how to set up the procedure for 7.4? Software is the only thing we develop.

Thank you.
Japio,

I do not see that the scanner or paper is the product that you sell, therefore the procurement of these items in your design and development does not have to be included in your Quality Management System. These items typically are considered MRO (Maintenance, Repair, & Operational) items, but my current CEO calls them Rope, Soap, and Dope.:lol:

If I misunderstood and these items are products that you sell, then I believe you would need to include purchasing as an element of your QMS.

Doug
 
S

S. Thompson

#3
Japio said:
Greetings,

I have a question concerning 'purchasing' and 'design and development'.

We scan documents and do some data entry into a database using our own software. We also make once in a while software which our customers can use to retrieve this data.

We purchase office articles, paper, sometimes a computer with screen. And perhaps a new scanner if one the current ones doesn't do the job anymore (a rare occasion).

I quess that i can't exclude 'purchasing' because of this one scanner which basically produces one part of the product. I'm i right about this?

If i can't exclude, can someone get me started with creating the procedure?

And can someone help me giving me a picture or examples on how to set up the procedure for 7.4? Software is the only thing we develop.

Thank you.
Hi Japio,

We are also a company that scan documents and data entry them.
We purchase scanners, computers, CD's DVD's etc. We have a purchasing procedure whcih includes suppliers of the above.
I know we do not sell these products onto our customers, but we use these materials to make our product. If the quality of these materials were poor, it could have a detremental effect on the quality of our product.

We also design and develop the software that enables our customers to view the images. Because we are designing it, I have not excluded 7.3 - we have a procedure for this also

Best Regards
Sandra;)
 
J

JaneB

#5
Though do you really *need* a written procedure? Unless you do a lot of purchasing (& it doesn't sound like you do), or have a lot of people in your company, I wouldn't have thought so.

You can't exclude the requirements of the clause, no. But nothing in it says you must have a written procedure.
 
J

Japio

#6
We are just a small company, about 20 employees. And i'm basically new to this.

From what i've understood now is that i need a procedure for purchasing because our equipment influences our product quality (actually the quality of the scanned product). I now have created a flowchart for this purpose.

That leaves me with 7.3, i will go through the attachment lists again for this. If someone has an example flowchart willing to share, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the replies!
 

Douglas E. Purdy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Business Procedures Versus QMS Requirements

Japio said:
We are just a small company, about 20 employees. And i'm basically new to this.

From what i've understood now is that i need a procedure for purchasing because our equipment influences our product quality (actually the quality of the scanned product). I now have created a flowchart for this purpose.

That leaves me with 7.3, i will go through the attachment lists again for this. If someone has an example flowchart willing to share, that would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the replies!
Japio,

Do you understand the difference between having business procedures for issuing Purchase Orders and the ISO 9001 Product Realization requirement to "ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements"? Most every business has procedures for how to procure items needed for the business (i.e., Rope, Soap, & Dope) but ISO 9001 is not requiring this for your product realization. If you so choose to include this in your QMS, then you will be audited to the ISO requirements. I am not saying this is a bad thing, but know what it is that you are doing.

Doug
 
J

JaneB

#8
Japio said:
From what i've understood now is that i need a procedure for purchasing because our equipment influences our product quality (actually the quality of the scanned product).
You do *not* need a written procedure. Nothing, but nothing in ISO 9001 *requires* you to have one. If you decide to write up a flowchart for your own purposes, that is your call, but ISO does not say you must.

Yes, what you buy matters. So yes, it's important that you specify what you want clearly, and then make sure you get what you specified (eg, check it when it comes in against the purchase order, & sign the delivery document to record the check).

I would have thought a well designed purchase order, with space requiring someone with appropriate authority to authorise it (eg, Director, Office Manager, etc) would do. If all the procedure does is say 'fill in the form & get it signed'... is that written procedure going to add a lot of value?

People in 200-strong companies usually do need one, because a lot more people are involved. I've rarely found that smaller companies - except manufacturing ones - do. Your call.
 
J

Japio

#9
I understand your point, a well designed purchase order should do the job.

What about rules for purchasing, for example the purchaser can buy stuff without approval under € 1000,- but not higher? Can this just be a box on the purchase order in which the appropiate person can put his signature for approval.
 
J

JaneB

#10
Yes. I'm trying to save you effort, if possible. If you need or want a procedure, then have one by all means. But if it's not required, don't - :)

Key point of the ISO clause is (in my words) boils down to: take due care when purchasing to make sure you specify what you want, and that you get it. (All in the 1st sentence of 7.4.1, really - the rest of it just adds some more specific detail.) Which is also good business sense - a certified company can't just say 'oh, sorry about the crappy quality in your products, but it's not our fault, it's our supplier'. It IS your responsibility, because the customer is buying from you. Whether you make it yourself, or buy it in, or outsource some/all of it... the responsibility remains with you.

Most business people get 'excited' about purchasing (reasonably so) because it involves spending company $$. Fair enough. It needs to be managed - your idea of a rule on the form sounds good to me (always good to keep info where it's most likely to be seen!). Other places might (for example) be in an authority matrix (if you have one) saying who has authority to sign off on what, or in policy, eg, company policy manual.

But if the purchase order starts being so full of rules that it's unusable, and/or you have indications of problems with purchasing, that might indicate that a procedure is *perhaps* required. It all depends! Hope this helps.
 
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