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7.4.3 Verification of Purchased Product - Drop Shipments Compliance

M

Mario Alberto83

#1
I am trying to figure out how to manage this requirement in drop shipments, I mean, when the product is delivered directly from our supplier to our customer.

In this case, obviously we in the organization do not see or verify the product.

I thought of the following:
Asking the supplier a certificate of conformance via email before delivering the product to the customer so we make sure it has passed all tests and controls, however, there are cases where the purchase is made via internet so we do not have a formal contact with the supplier so we can flow down QMS requirements.

Under this scenario, do you think I can exclude this requirement for internet purchases considering the requirement comes from section 7 and can be subject to exclusion?

Thanks in advance for your help
 
#2
I am trying to figure out how to manage this requirement in drop shipments, I mean, when the product is delivered directly from our supplier to our customer.

In this case, obviously we in the organization do not see or verify the product.

I thought of the following:
Asking the supplier a certificate of conformance via email before delivering the product to the customer so we make sure it has passed all tests and controls, however, there are cases where the purchase is made via internet so we do not have a formal contact with the supplier so we can flow down QMS requirements.

Under this scenario, do you think I can exclude this requirement for internet purchases considering the requirement comes from section 7 and can be subject to exclusion?

Thanks in advance for your help
Could you please give more details?
I did not understand well. Do your supplier provide product to your customer? Is this final product?
What is your role in this supply chain? Did you outsource part of the production? If so, you are still obliged to control the outsourcer as per 4.1 of ISO 9001.
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#3
There are cases that my company just buys a product via internet, receives it and delivers to the customer as it is, with no changes. In this case we can review the product for conformity before sending to the customer.

In other cases, my company gives instruction to the internet supplier to deliver the product directly to the customer, in these cases there is no way for us to assure the product meets the requirements and works well because we do not see the product and cannot provide special provisions to the internet supplier since there is not any negotiation with him, we just get into the supplier portal, buy the product and provide delivery address.

I do not know how to manage the situation in this scenario where the supplier will never know/care about customer (my company) special requirements, they just offer what they have so we decide if taking it or not.
Do you think is possible to consider the requirement in 7.4.3 for exclusion??

By the way, I am being ruled by AS9100, not ISO, but it is very similar.
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
There are cases that my company just buys a product via internet, receives it and delivers to the customer as it is, with no changes. In this case we can review the product for conformity before sending to the customer.

In other cases, my company gives instruction to the internet supplier to deliver the product directly to the customer, in these cases there is no way for us to assure the product meets the requirements and works well because we do not see the product and cannot provide special provisions to the internet supplier since there is not any negotiation with him, we just get into the supplier portal, buy the product and provide delivery address.

I do not know how to manage the situation in this scenario where the supplier will never know/care about customer (my company) special requirements, they just offer what they have so we decide if taking it or not.
Do you think is possible to consider the requirement in 7.4.3 for exclusion??

By the way, I am being ruled by AS9100, not ISO, but it is very similar.
What prevents you from being AS9120?

This would gide me into understanding your system better.
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#5
Actually, the company is in preparation for certification in AS9100. The company provides several services such as manufacturing, mechanical desing, software development and distribution of parts (internet purchased products as I desbribed in some cases).

The only services we will be providing for aerospace industry, would be manufacturing and mechanical design; however our QMS will rule all the services even if they are not intended to be applied for aerospace industry. So, because of that, we do not need AS9120, all our services will be governed by AS9100 guidelines (including distriubution of product purchased via internet).
 
#6
There are cases that my company just buys a product via internet, receives it and delivers to the customer as it is, with no changes. In this case we can review the product for conformity before sending to the customer.

In other cases, my company gives instruction to the internet supplier to deliver the product directly to the customer, in these cases there is no way for us to assure the product meets the requirements and works well because we do not see the product and cannot provide special provisions to the internet supplier since there is not any negotiation with him, we just get into the supplier portal, buy the product and provide delivery address.

I do not know how to manage the situation in this scenario where the supplier will never know/care about customer (my company) special requirements, they just offer what they have so we decide if taking it or not.
Do you think is possible to consider the requirement in 7.4.3 for exclusion??

By the way, I am being ruled by AS9100, not ISO, but it is very similar.
Does your customer know that you provide a product bought from another supplier and not done by you? The customer could buy directly the same product by the same your supplier at the same way, or I am wrong?
What is the advantage?
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#7
It is exactly what I thought in the beginning, however there are some details I do not know in deep but, as far as I know, if the customer wants to get the product the same way from the same supplier, it would be more expensive. My company gets the product at a lower price and can add some extra charges to the price. The result...the customer obtains a product at a lower cost than if he got if by himself, and my company also gets some profits.

There are some business conditions I do not know and do not need, what I would like to know is how to handle with purchsed product conformance in this cases where the purchase is via internet and I do not have the way to ask supplier for special requirements.

I would be grateful for your input
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
I am trying to figure out how to manage this requirement in drop shipments, I mean, when the product is delivered directly from our supplier to our customer.

In this case, obviously we in the organization do not see or verify the product.

I thought of the following:
Asking the supplier a certificate of conformance via email before delivering the product to the customer so we make sure it has passed all tests and controls, however, there are cases where the purchase is made via internet so we do not have a formal contact with the supplier so we can flow down QMS requirements.

Under this scenario, do you think I can exclude this requirement for internet purchases considering the requirement comes from section 7 and can be subject to exclusion?

Thanks in advance for your help
Please provide additional information:

Are the supplier approved?

if they are - your company is responsible for the quality of the product.

thus - ask for certificate of conformance on every PO - and flow down the terms and conditions (if available to them).

Due to not knowing the product is hard to provide additional information - so make sure that there is good comunication between the supplier and your company.
 
M

Mario Alberto83

#9
Please provide additional information:

Are the supplier approved?

if they are - your company is responsible for the quality of the product.

thus - ask for certificate of conformance on every PO - and flow down the terms and conditions (if available to them).

Due to not knowing the product is hard to provide additional information - so make sure that there is good comunication between the supplier and your company.
The supplier is approved per our supplier approval criteria.

I utterly agree that the organization is responsible for product quality, and your suggestions are applied for "normal" purchases; however in this case (internet purchase and direct delivery to customer), I can neither verify the product nor provide special requirements since the supplier does not allow that, they just offer what they have and that´s it, we know if taking it or not.

I believe this kind of service is not able to fit in the requirement.
Should I opt to exclude this requirement from the QMS for this kind of services considering this service will not be in the scope of our certification (scope will only be manufacturing and mechanical design?

Thanks
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
The supplier is approved per our supplier approval criteria.

I utterly agree that the organization is responsible for product quality, and your suggestions are applied for "normal" purchases; however in this case (internet purchase and direct delivery to customer), I can neither verify the product nor provide special requirements since the supplier does not allow that, they just offer what they have and that´s it, we know if taking it or not.

I believe this kind of service is not able to fit in the requirement.
Should I opt to exclude this requirement from the QMS for this kind of services considering this service will not be in the scope of our certification (scope will only be manufacturing and mechanical design?

Thanks
In this case - contact your CB (Registrar) and talk to them about your specific scenario and have the registrar auditor agree or disagree with your conclusion or opinion. They would have better access to the information that is not provided in the forum.

At this point - based on the little information that you have provided all we could do is guess as to what is your best avenue - your statements are vague in description as to what product or process is being bought or sold - and it's OK.

Call your registrar for additional guidance or be descriptive in this forum ;):bigwave:
 
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