787 Crash

[Ronen E]

From the Aviation Herald website:
On Jul 14th 2025 India's DGCA instructed airlines to check the fuel switches on the Boeing 787 and Boeing 737 aircraft as used by Air India Group, Indigo and Spicejet for possible disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature according to the SAIB released by the FAA on Dec 17th 2018. The checks have to be completed by Jul 21st 2025.

One week to perform the check, suggesting a degree of urgency. The mention of the switch locking feature suggests that this is of concern.
What I find very strange is that if the locking mechanism fails, gravity will cause the switch to transition to the cut-off position. Surely this should be the other way round, you don't want a failure of the locking mechanism to cause the switch to accidentally operate and cut off the fuel supply?

I think that the urgency is appropriate, because IF they were inadvertently flipped it is a huge risk factor. But that doesn't mean it is likely or the leading hypothesis. Checking this quickly is the right thing to do, even if it's just to rule it out.

I think gravity is not that big of a factor here, because even with the locking mechanism failed they would still require significant force to switch off. The locking mechanism is not the only thing holding them in position; rather, it is intended to turn this into a deliberate-2-action operation. This kind of switch, even the unlocking ones, normally (when not broken) requires significant force to move. Yes, it still might be accidentally flipped by a misplaced hand etc., but not just by gravity, vibration, etc.

 

[Bev D]

Well if we look at the DATA it is much more likely that an equipment failure occurred. Most plane crashes and near crashes have occurred due to equipment failure. Deliberate pilot action and even pilot error is quite rare - per the actual data. It isn’t impossible but many pilot error and incompetence claims are typically early diversionary and political tactics to find root blame. Then we get causal mechanism and everyone just ignores the craven “ blame the pilot “. But that’s just probability and data. Before we convict let’s get the actual facts.

 

[Ronen E]

Well if we look at the DATA it is much more likely that an equipment failure occurred. Most plane crashes and near crashes have occurred due to equipment failure. Deliberate pilot action and even pilot error is quite rare - per the actual data. It isn’t impossible but many pilot error and incompetence claims are typically early diversionary and political tactics to find root blame. Then we get causal mechanism and everyone just ignores the craven “ blame the pilot “. But that’s just probability and data. Before we convict let’s get the actual facts.

No one convicted anyone. We're just discussing plausible causes.
It's actually quite hard to tell because there is lack of transparency around the data. At least that's my impression.

 

[mattador78]

No one convicted anyone. We're just discussing plausible causes.
It's actually quite hard to tell because there is lack of transparency around the data. At least that's my impression.

The difficulty with releasing any of the data quickly is the formation of theorys based on the limitations of that data. They have said the fuel was cut to the engines by the two switches. This is either three things mechanical malfunction, pilot error or a deliberate act. Pilot error seems the least likely. The other two are probably a 50/50 at this minute. The same theories were throw around after the 737 crashes that it was pilot error or deliberate acts when it was the mcas system plummiting the plane into the ground. Basic safety has created the neccescity for Air India to check the switches which im sure every user of the models fitted with that version will also do, outside of that if it takes a year for the full report then we will have to wait. but im sure due to Boeings shortcomings on the Max program we can expect them to be ahead of the curve investigating themselves at home outside of the Indian investigation

 

[Ed Panek]

I saw a video of these switches. You need to pull the lever outward met by spring resistance, pull it up or down over an inner detente, then release it and the spring locks it into place. Doing one switch accidentally seems unlikely...2 switches together? Very unlikely imo.

 

[Randy]

Most plane crashes and near crashes have occurred due to equipment failure.

Naa, the ones I've been involved with, either 1st hand (taking the "ride"), helped investigate, or cleaned up the mess, were more often than not, the pilot with a severe case of "HUA" at the time. Yep, there have been plenty equipment failures. Here's 3 pics....1 I "rode out", 1 I was part of the investigation, and 1 I cleaned up.............All "pilot induced"........No deaths involved.

 

[Bev D]

Naa, the ones I've been involved with, either 1st hand (taking the "ride"), helped investigate, or cleaned up the mess, were more often than not, the pilot with a severe case of "HUA" at the time. Yep, there have been plenty equipment failures. Here's 3 pics....1 I "rode out", 1 I was part of the investigation, and 1 I cleaned up.............All "pilot induced"........No deaths involved.

View attachment 31223

well I was talking about commercial flights (airplanes, not helicopters, warships, or small private/commuter planes) where there are publicly available final reports. Since that is what this thread is about. Mea culpa I should have been more specific.

 

[mattador78]

Naa, the ones I've been involved with, either 1st hand (taking the "ride"), helped investigate, or cleaned up the mess, were more often than not, the pilot with a severe case of "HUA" at the time. Yep, there have been plenty equipment failures. Here's 3 pics....1 I "rode out", 1 I was part of the investigation, and 1 I cleaned up.............All "pilot induced"........No deaths involved.

View attachment 31223

My experience with helicopters is limited couple of flights and standing guard but they always do seem to have the feel that they want to crash more so than an aeroplane.

 

[mattador78]

The initial report is available here if anyones interested.
https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf

 

[Randy]

My experience with helicopters is limited couple of flights and standing guard but they always do seem to have the feel that they want to crash more so than an aeroplane.

20,000 parts going different directions, beating the air into submission.