8.1.2 Knowledge of basic statistical concepts

P

paulnguyen

#1
Hi there,

The 8.1.2 of the TS says:
"Basic statistical concepts, such as variation, control (stability), process capability and over-adjustment shall be understood and utilized throughout the organization"

Is it appropriate to interpret that this only applies to "personnel who directly impact quality of the products" or this is the case where everybody including the caretaker, receptionist... etc. must understand those concepts.

Please input.

Thanks
:frust:
 
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D

D.Scott

#2
Paul - A quick answer to your question is that not everyone is required to understand the concepts. You will be safe in your interpretation.

IMHO, I don't think the statement applies to individuals. I believe the concepts need to be understood on a variety of levels within the organization. The requirement also states that this understanding should be utilized throughout the organization.

Strictly speaking, if you had one statistician who understood all the concepts and implemented systems throughout the company that utilized those concepts - you meet the requirements.

It is a tough road to teach everybody who directly impacts quality the basic statistical concepts. It is an even tougher road to demonstrate that they understand what they have learned. Any training you give will not go to waste, but it makes no economic sense to train everybody.

Again - just my humble opinion.

Dave
 
#3
IMHO, I don't think the statement applies to individuals
Interesting view Dave. I think that there will be some auditors who disagree with your opinion. This could lead to nit-picking and stating that the receptionist must know about over-adjustment. Stupid? You bet, but it will happen! Your comments tend to lend themselves to the ‘practical’ application of the standard, and we cannot tolerate anything that is practical or makes sense. :bonk:
 
S

sxbalasu

#4
Statistics

I agree with both Dave and DB in a sense that training never go waste but variation occurs everywhere in a business process. Even a receptionist, caretaker. The way they receive people will vary and that is a variation. Also the satisfaction of the customer who visits them may vary according to the receptionist behaviour with that particular guy so as far as i am concerned where ever you see human beings you have variation and it is inherent. Any auditor can pick this up and ask questions. So it is better to conduct a training session to all employees regarding variation may be the intent of the training session can vary with regard to their work environement.
This is my humble opinion
 
D

D.Scott

#5
Siv - your point is valid and well made, however you have to determine the value of idealism with that of economic reality.

I teach a 4 hour basic statstic class to selected employees. To address every employee would mean 597 employees at an average of $15 per hour X 4 hours = $35,820.

The benefit to my company of having the receptionist understand her variation simply doesn't stack up. I am a proponent of good quality techniques and practices, but this is another case where you can "regulate" way past sensability.

If the quality techniques you use don't add value to your company or to your customer, why in the world would you waste your time and money doing it? There are far too many companies suffering under the present economy and far too many quality programs suffering because of cutbacks. Maybe if we stopped worrying about regulatory enforcement and went back to doing what makes sense, we could all concentrate on making good product as well as earning some money in the process.

Obviously, this is simply my opinion and each company has to determine its own "bang-for-the-buck".

Dave
 
S

sxbalasu

#6
YOu are right

Dear Dave:
I agree totally what you say. With present economic conditions it is always better to train or educate guys who will add value to the customer. I was of the opinion that total quality commitment should start from top and spread down all the way to the lowest employer.
Thanks for your valuable suggestion
thanks
 
P

paulnguyen

#7
Thank you for your valuable input,

I met with my registrar yesterday and brought up this issue.
The response to ME was:

- Yes, it applies to everybody
- But, not everbody is required to have the same complete level of understanding the concepts
- Some people will have to go really deep into it (quality personnel), some people will just have to understand the meaning of the trend chart, average, etc.
- The issue is left with the organization to determine who needs what (it is now linked to 6.2.2 "Competence, awareness and training")

This is, again, MY registrar's interpretation of the clause and in my opinion, it makes sence in my company.

Thanks again.
 
#8
Everyone knows trend chart

some people will just have to understand the meaning of the trend chart, average, etc.
This is what I was fearing. An auditor thinking that everyone needs to know the basics. If someone is not involved in statistical recording or analysis, they why would they have to know anything about it? It just sounds silly to me!
 
P

paulnguyen

#9
Hi Dave,

This is what the auditor "hints" me regarding the receptionist:

If the receptionist' job requires an activity of monitoring phone calls, her/his job description must clearly say so, of-cause. The need of understanding the average, trends, etc. to help fulfil this task must be identified by the company which will triggle the training matrix needed for the receptionist.

In case of the caretaker, if his/her job doesnot require anything related to SPC, his/her training matrix doesnot list the requirement of understanding it.

In-short, the auditor hints, it's up to you to determine the needs. Of-cause it is auditable; well, all clauses in the TS are.

Regards.
 
M

M Greenaway

#10
The bottom line in any training is that you only train the people who need to know, and only to an appropriate level. SPC training is no different, and why it was highlighted in QS9000 god only knows.
 
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