8.3.3.3 Special Characteristics Documentation

[Crystie]

Avid reader to discussions but first time posting. May I first say thank you for all your helpful insight into a job I never dreamed I would have.

I've been the Lead IATF Auditor at an automotive manufacturing plant for only a couple of years. I read and take as many classes as I can to learn but I realize that a lot of my skills and knowledge will come with experience. That being said, I am not in agreement with some of my management on how to interpret this clause. They are wanting to remove all special control characteristics from machine condition check sheets and pokie check sheets. There is nothing that states specifically that they must be included in the manufacturing documents.

"8.3.3.3 Special characteristics (IATF) (SI #6)
The organization shall use a multidisciplinary approach to establish, document, and implement its process(es) to identify special characteristics, including those determined by the customer and the risk analysis performed by the organization, and shall include the following:
a) Documentation of special characteristics in the product and / or manufacturing documents (as required), relevant risk analysis (such as Process FMEA), control plans, and standard work/operator instructions; special characteristics are identified with specific markings and are documented in the manufacturing documents which show the creation of, or the controls required, for these special characteristics."

To me, the machine "creates" the part and the Machine Condition Check sheets are the "controls" and/or specs that the machine should be running at to create the part correctly. Am I way off base here? Please let me know your opinion and help me learn.

 

[Ashland78]

I don't tell many this but I work for a big 3 auto company, with a couple letters in the name. That would be frowned upon. Critical characteristics need to be known to operators, engineers, etc. I think you could potentially get a major NC from a third party. Would your customer approve your control plan if they weren't called out for engineers, ops to know?

 

[Bev D]

To me, the machine "creates" the part and the Machine Condition Check sheets are the "controls" and/or specs that the machine should be running at to create the part correctly. Am I way off base here? Please let me know your opinion and help me learn.

I’m not sure of your reasoning here? How does this describe the documentation of the special or critical characteristic?

 

[Ashland78]

I’m not sure of your reasoning here? How does this describe the documentation of the special or critical characteristic?

Agreed

 

[Golfman25]

Avid reader to discussions but first time posting. May I first say thank you for all your helpful insight into a job I never dreamed I would have.

I've been the Lead IATF Auditor at an automotive manufacturing plant for only a couple of years. I read and take as many classes as I can to learn but I realize that a lot of my skills and knowledge will come with experience. That being said, I am not in agreement with some of my management on how to interpret this clause. They are wanting to remove all special control characteristics from machine condition check sheets and pokie check sheets. There is nothing that states specifically that they must be included in the manufacturing documents.

"8.3.3.3 Special characteristics (IATF) (SI #6)
The organization shall use a multidisciplinary approach to establish, document, and implement its process(es) to identify special characteristics, including those determined by the customer and the risk analysis performed by the organization, and shall include the following:
a) Documentation of special characteristics in the product and / or manufacturing documents (as required), relevant risk analysis (such as Process FMEA), control plans, and standard work/operator instructions; special characteristics are identified with specific markings and are documented in the manufacturing documents which show the creation of, or the controls required, for these special characteristics."

To me, the machine "creates" the part and the Machine Condition Check sheets are the "controls" and/or specs that the machine should be running at to create the part correctly. Am I way off base here? Please let me know your opinion and help me learn.

You may need to reconsider what you all are trying to do. I assume you make something to a print or other specification. That print should (or may) have special characteristics identified. That information should be flowed down to your manufacturing docs. Then controls decided upon and tracked.

So for example, our customer indicates a certain dimension needs to run at a 1.33 cpk because it is critical. We ID that dimension on our work orders, with special inspection and record keeping instructions. We have less vigorous controls on non critical dimensions, i.e., we may only check at setup.

 

[Andy04]

@Crystie: I don't know what is your question.
Point 8.3.3.3 from IATF tells you, how to handle with special char.: must be recognized, marked and clearly visible in different documents (FMEA, control plan etc.).

For dimensions that are a special characteristic, it is not enough for the machine to produce the part correctly --> the process must be stable and accurate. How accurate and stable is prescribed by cpk.

 

[gakiss2]

Avid reader to discussions but first time posting. May I first say thank you for all your helpful insight into a job I never dreamed I would have.

I've been the Lead IATF Auditor at an automotive manufacturing plant for only a couple of years. I read and take as many classes as I can to learn but I realize that a lot of my skills and knowledge will come with experience. That being said, I am not in agreement with some of my management on how to interpret this clause. They are wanting to remove all special control characteristics from machine condition check sheets and pokie check sheets. There is nothing that states specifically that they must be included in the manufacturing documents.

"8.3.3.3 Special characteristics (IATF) (SI #6)
The organization shall use a multidisciplinary approach to establish, document, and implement its process(es) to identify special characteristics, including those determined by the customer and the risk analysis performed by the organization, and shall include the following:
a) Documentation of special characteristics in the product and / or manufacturing documents (as required), relevant risk analysis (such as Process FMEA), control plans, and standard work/operator instructions; special characteristics are identified with specific markings and are documented in the manufacturing documents which show the creation of, or the controls required, for these special characteristics."

To me, the machine "creates" the part and the Machine Condition Check sheets are the "controls" and/or specs that the machine should be running at to create the part correctly. Am I way off base here? Please let me know your opinion and help m

Reading through the thread I wonder if there could be some confusion around Product characteristics and Process settings? Surely your management agrees to marking the Product Characteristics as special (presupposing that the call out is on the drawing or was determined during APQP and documented appropriately). So now your disagreement with your management is whether or not to call out the Process settings as Special Characteristics?

Not sure if that read on your question is accurate, please comment.

Assuming I am correct... I can easily see your viewpoint and that goes along with the comment that the process would need to be stable, in control and capable. In my experience, when a customer 'dictates' a special characteristic, it is usually only the product characteristic. I'd say ask your customer but I suspect you would get a knee jerk answer that agrees with your position. Does it make sense to compromise and not mark the process controls as special but do give them more robust controls? Sorry to be not so definitive, I see both sides.

 

[Miner]

My automotive experience is somewhat dated but i believe that what the OP is getting at is the AIAG control plan requirement to include "...process variables (input variables) that have a cause and effect relationship with the identified Product Characteristic." and to "...identify Process Characteristics for which variation must be controlled to minimize product variation." While there does not appear to be a specific requirement to identify these as Special Process Characteristics, they are required to be in the control plan, which would then mean they need to be deployed to whatever documents are used on the shop floor to operate and control the process.