8D format - To include D8 Congratulate the Team Or Not to?!

T

terranceyu

#11
Manix, fully understand your stand, and that's the exactly the same point I am arguing with my boss! Anyway, shall practice as a lesson learned, and share to the other colleagues for future use.

:agree1:
 
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T

tpr2007

#12
In a past life at a large Defense Contractor, I was instructed to remove 8d. "Congratulate the team". Mgmt thinking was that it is every employees "job" to continuously improve. They thought that this step was not only extraneous, it re-inforced the thinking that process improvement was above and beyond the duty of all employees. I fought for a losing battle for a couple of months until I decided to phrase the step in a different manner. "STEP 8d. Communicate & Sustain". I successfully argued that communication of the success of Steps 1-7 was integral to the sustainement of its success. It just so happened that the method of communication was to recognize and congratulate the team.:agree:
 

Manix

Get Involved!!!
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#13
This is an interesting example and thanks for sharing it. IMO I think both you and your management had a point and working together you did/could have achieved the same goal.

Your management were seeking a culture of improvement that was ingrained. You too probably wanted this aim, but recognised that this would not be achieved without actions that nurture this culture. The 8th step helped nurture and sustain.

I would argue that with time and other activities that nurture this culture, that the 8th step would become redundant anyway, perhaps, talking about ultimate ideals, the 8D process need never be instigated, as you have reached the utopia that is 100% satisfaction, with no issues!!!
 

rnsvasan

Involved In Discussions
#14
I have one question. Is there any rule that not to add one more step in this format. Instead of 8D what is wrong in if there is 9thD unless it does not dilute the purpose.
 
T

tpr2007

#15
IMO you could have 50 steps. To your point, the number of steps really does not matter. The key is that the process include a method to sustain whatever improvement was generated by the 8-d process. The 8-d process is setup to sustain the results by communicating the success of the effort. You can perform this in many ways.

The generally accepted thought process is that recognition is a very good method to re-inforce success both within the implementaiton team and throughout the larger organization. The re-inforcement of that success (along with process controls) is the best method to ensure longterm success of any improvemente generated by the 8-d process.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
We have dropped the congratulate team bit in favour of creating a record of improvements/lessons learnt. It is a wide open 8Th D really that allows the person writing it to record anything learnt during the process that could help other 8D processes or anyone in the organization I guess.

I shouldn't say this but it feels too American for me. It seems all about high fives and pats on the back which I think is not the same as other cultures around the world. It is a military developed format from the US military that was later taken on by Ford and others. I think it shows that origin in the 8th D. Perhaps that is just my view. Interesting idea I think about quality having a cultural element to it that is different around the world. I think the Japanese is an obvious one but there will be others too like the Mil / Ford 8th D.

Another of my issues is when you have to report back to customers using their form and you get it bounced back because you didn't congratulate the team. I find that a but petty and imposing their organization's culture on you. What do you think?
 
W

WKHANNA

#17
Another of my issues is when you have to report back to customers using their form and you get it bounced back because you didn't congratulate the team. I find that a but petty and imposing their organization's culture on you. What do you think?

Our biggest customer requires this on their form for responding to rejections which they call DMR's (Discrepant Material Reports).

While the congratulatory citation exists on the form, I know for a fact is seldom relayed to the person or persons responsible for fixing the problem.
 
#18
It just so happened that the method of communication was to recognize and congratulate the team.:agree:
Perfect.
I fill in the 8th box with the names of everyone who assisted in the first 7. Not only are they congratulated but this can be an invaluable reference if future problems occur in the same area, either physically or in expertise.
I think the Japanese is an obvious one but there will be others too like the Mil / Ford 8th D.

Another of my issues is when you have to report back to customers using their form and you get it bounced back because you didn't congratulate the team. I find that a but petty and imposing their organization's culture on you. What do you think?
As a former employee of a large Japanese automaker, I can tell you that they are very big on rewarding employees for continual improvement, with both face-to-face and monetary congratulations.
Do you not think it petty to avoid congratulating a team of humans that improved something to save both your company and your customer cash and effort?
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#19
I do not have a problem with rewarding or congratulating those who contribute in that way. I just don't think the adding of names to a report does that in itself. I thank the people face to face not in a report they may or may not even see.

To my mind it only has value if you are in a bigger organization and it is useful to record who to look for if you have something similar happen in the future. I am in a SME which it is obvious who would be useful if it happens again.

If it is petty to find no use for my organization to put names in a company form then I will gladly admit to being petty. IMHO all aspects of quality should be right for your organization. such a D8 is only right for my organization if the customer (who is often bigger than my company) insists on such a section.

Our company uses an 8D format with some other D8 section that matters and adds value to our company. Just because "congratulate team" is no longer there does not mean they don't feel the warmth of a pat on the back. Our top management are very much keen on letting people know when they are doing a good job. It is part of the heart of our company, that is respect for your colleagues. It is written into our QMS and mission statement as a core value of the organization. It is not written into our 8D process but only in the cases where we have to report back to selected customers with such a D8.
 
G

GoKats78

#20
Perfect.

As a former employee of a large Japanese automaker, I can tell you that they are very big on rewarding employees for continual improvement, with both face-to-face and monetary congratulations.
Well...I can tell you lower level Japanese auto parts makers don't follow that business model...:(
 
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