D
D.Scott
Another approach would be to apply what you have learned from the C/A to other processes / programs / contracts to ensure you don't have the same problem in another area.
Dave
Dave
J
JodiB
Am I misunderstanding?
Why can't the problem occur again Martin? Am I missing something here?
Is the root cause so imbedded in that particular customer's requirements that it just goes away?
If it is a system problem, then it has to be dealt with. The corrective action is for the system, not the product, not the customer.
Al, could you give more detail?
Why can't the problem occur again Martin? Am I missing something here?
Is the root cause so imbedded in that particular customer's requirements that it just goes away?If it is a system problem, then it has to be dealt with. The corrective action is for the system, not the product, not the customer.
Al, could you give more detail?
M
M Greenaway
Your right Lucinda.
I was thinking strictly in terms of a specific product supplied to a specific customer where the customer is demanding an 8D report.
You are quite correct that any complaint should be investigated to root cause, and actions taken as necessary for the good of the company.
Sorry - just starting to get trapped into the mind set of my current employer, thanks for snapping me out of it !
I was thinking strictly in terms of a specific product supplied to a specific customer where the customer is demanding an 8D report.
You are quite correct that any complaint should be investigated to root cause, and actions taken as necessary for the good of the company.
Sorry - just starting to get trapped into the mind set of my current employer, thanks for snapping me out of it !
J
JodiB
Well, back into my mindset of 3rd party audit I have to wonder how an open 8D request could pass muster. Or is this back to the previously discussed question of whether a NCR can be closed without action...? I suppose that one could always close out the 8D by saying that no action would be taken.....!
Perhaps wrong place to mention this, but a good 3rd party auditor will be looking for a good reason for not taking action. S/he will question the robustness of the CAPA process if it looks like a company ducks issues simply out of convenience. To me, saying that the customer is no longer a customer so we don't have to respond to them with corrective action smells like convenience.
Perhaps wrong place to mention this, but a good 3rd party auditor will be looking for a good reason for not taking action. S/he will question the robustness of the CAPA process if it looks like a company ducks issues simply out of convenience. To me, saying that the customer is no longer a customer so we don't have to respond to them with corrective action smells like convenience.
M
M Greenaway
I guess we have two issues.
Firstly identifying a problem, discovering root cause and then taking appropriate action on the system.
Secondly we have the need to satisfy the customers burning desire for a full 8D report on every single reported incidence of non-conforming product.
My repsonse was leaning towards consideration of the second issue above, i.e. the formal report back to the customer. If an assessor picked me up for not reporting back an 8D to a customer that I no longer had I would have to laugh.
Firstly identifying a problem, discovering root cause and then taking appropriate action on the system.
Secondly we have the need to satisfy the customers burning desire for a full 8D report on every single reported incidence of non-conforming product.
My repsonse was leaning towards consideration of the second issue above, i.e. the formal report back to the customer. If an assessor picked me up for not reporting back an 8D to a customer that I no longer had I would have to laugh.
R
Randy Stewart
I agree Lucinda, the verbiage would have to tell me why it was closed without action. Show me that the company looked into it and why that decision was made. Even if it was "uneconomical" due to contract expiration I would look to ensure the problem didn't cross over other operations.
Manoj Mathur
Quite Involved in Discussions
M
M Greenaway
Manoj
8D is the corrective action methodology championed primarily by the Ford motor company, and now pretty much an industry norm in the auto industry.
8D basically stands for 8 Disciplines, and is the required 8 steps to successfully address a incidence of non-conformance.
The Disciplines (or steps) are:-
Discipline 1 - Organise the team to work on the corrective action, ideally this should be a cross functional team.
Discipline 2 - Define the problem, accurately and specifically.
Discipline 3 - Containment action, that is take action that will stop any similar non-conformances being reported. i.e. check existing stock, work in progress, etc for the fault reported.
Discipline 4 - Establish root cause, absolutely fundemental to achieving effective corrective action. Use 5 Why's, Ishikawas, fault trees, etc or try to re-create the problem.
Discipline 5 - Plan corrective action, detail tasks to be undertaken, resources, responsibilities (action owners), time scales, etc.
Discipline 6 - Implement corrective action plan and verify its effectiveness.
Discipline 7 - Take preventive action (this slightly contradicts ISO9001 definitions, but dont lose sleep over it), update procedures, FMEA's, etc, institutionalise the action taken.
Discipline 8 - Thank everyone for participating, slap each other on the back, and sit back and wait for the next one.
8D is the corrective action methodology championed primarily by the Ford motor company, and now pretty much an industry norm in the auto industry.
8D basically stands for 8 Disciplines, and is the required 8 steps to successfully address a incidence of non-conformance.
The Disciplines (or steps) are:-
Discipline 1 - Organise the team to work on the corrective action, ideally this should be a cross functional team.
Discipline 2 - Define the problem, accurately and specifically.
Discipline 3 - Containment action, that is take action that will stop any similar non-conformances being reported. i.e. check existing stock, work in progress, etc for the fault reported.
Discipline 4 - Establish root cause, absolutely fundemental to achieving effective corrective action. Use 5 Why's, Ishikawas, fault trees, etc or try to re-create the problem.
Discipline 5 - Plan corrective action, detail tasks to be undertaken, resources, responsibilities (action owners), time scales, etc.
Discipline 6 - Implement corrective action plan and verify its effectiveness.
Discipline 7 - Take preventive action (this slightly contradicts ISO9001 definitions, but dont lose sleep over it), update procedures, FMEA's, etc, institutionalise the action taken.
Discipline 8 - Thank everyone for participating, slap each other on the back, and sit back and wait for the next one.
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