A confusing Non-conformity - No defined QMS processes intended for 'Management'

[Howard Atkins]

I came across a recent case over here where the auditor insist that one must have a policy section where you must have at least a few sentences to describe how you are going to address a particular clause of the standard. Without which, it will be interpreted that you had not met the requirements of the standard and an NC worded in the same manner as that brought out by the OP. (This was resolved after the auditee insisted that he gets a second opinion from head office). I am wondering if the original poster is facing the same issue.

From what I understand over here, this was the interpretation or way it was done for the pre-2000 versions and some auditors had not updated their knowledge since.

Exactly
And this is why so many Quality Manuals are just regurgitations of the standard.

 

[brahmaiah]

Hello there ,

Does anyone have an opinion about this non-conformity given to my one of supplier during their ISO 9001:2008 certification audit ?

The NC was given to item 4.1 .
Details of NC (word for word): "It's determined that the organization have not defined QMS processes intended for 'Management' and 'Provision of Resources' activities."

The Corrective Action recommended is simply : "Review your process documents according to standard"

Note: In their Quality Manual, it is explained how they carry out these activities with one or two paragraphs as usual in most quality systems.

My question ;
1) Is there any need for an additional explanation using a process map or a procedure for these processes as specially noted down in Item 4.1-Note 1 ?
2) How can be a process map for "Management Activities" and "Provision of Resources" ?

Thanks in advance

To answer your question or to comment on this we need the exact text written in the quality manual against clause no 4.1.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[harry]

A recent discussion related to this topic: Are 'Management Activities' a required Process Per Clause 4.1 ...

 

[tyolsal]

Thank you all for your comments.

Some details I forgot to state ;
This minor NC was given them to be completed within three months. There will be a second audit which means that they couldn't get the certificate at first. There exists an overall process interaction map inside their QM Manual which includes 'Management' & 'Resource Management' activities, also. But it's evaluated to be not enough as you know.
I think it's impossible to find any objective implementation (evidence) about these two basic management activities for an auditor. There seems to be a problem at the "define phase" of their QMS system. (Remember NC was given to 4.1)

Now, I'm trying to reach the auditor at the moment so as end or give a new direction to discussion.

See you