A mathematical measurable for document control

Marc

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#1
I had an interesting call today where a person was asked, during a TS 16949 registrar stage 1 audit, for a 'mathematical' measurable for document control. I've never been asked for that.

Your comments?
 
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Jen Kirley

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#2
Line items (of what's targeted as important) could be measured singly by number or percentage of escapes. Outdated revisions found in use; number or percent of the time QA has rejected a revision during review due to missing appendices, etc, while no one else in the signature loop noticed; etc.

These lines are more actionable than a statistical score, but an overall score could be calculated by assigning each type of escape a value, multiplying that value by number of escapes, then totaling. (Like in golf, low scores are better or else process the number into percent)
 

Marc

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#3
Is this a standard TS 16949 requirement / auditor expectation? As I say, I've never been asked about a measureble for document control before.

Also - The company in question is only about 35 people with non-complex processes and stable documentation.
 

Sidney Vianna

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#4
I had an interesting call today where a person was asked, during a TS 16949 registrar stage 1 audit, for a 'mathematical' measurable for document control. I've never been asked for that.

Your comments?
Marc, I am no TS qualified auditor, but it sounds like the TS auditor doing this Stage 1 audit thinks that document control is a process (or the registrant company identified doc control as a process in their Quality Manual). Misidentified as a process, document control would have to be monitored, thus the question. This is just a wild guess.

Or it could be another case of "AUDITORS GONE WILD"
 

Marc

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#5
That's the way I interpreted it Sidney. From the conversation I suggested that there is a general 'communication' issue with the auditor (interpretation issue in this case in my opinion) precisely because of the auditor interpreting document control as a process. There was more to the conversation, which I won't go into here, but that is why I think it's a specific auditor issue. But - I wanted to ask because I thought maybe I'd missed something in TS 16949 interpretations somewhere.
 
C

Chavador

#6
Hello all,

Well let me tell you that in our system have defined “document control” as a process. We face the same problem to define a measurable objective, trying to find an objective that add an extra value to the system we thought that delivery time after approval was very essential so, the target for this process is to register an deliver the new document into 24 hour.

Now the objective has been modified and improved, the percentage of compliance is equal to: Requirement (to register, controlled copy, not controlled copy,) / service or document delivery * 100.

That’s it.


Salvador Gonzalez.
 
C

Chavador

#7
Sorry formula is wrong, I show you the right:

Number of services or Document deliveries / number of requisitions (to register, controlled copy, not controlled copy)*100


Salvador Gonzalez.
 
#8
I had an interesting call today where a person was asked, during a TS 16949 registrar stage 1 audit, for a 'mathematical' measurable for document control. I've never been asked for that.

Your comments?
Marc:
Years ago, in the early days of ISO 9001:2000, I did hear of one auditor asking for the document control procedure to be measured............unfortunately, he was one of my old buddies from way back when..........:rolleyes:

My guess is right up there with Sidney's, except for the possibility of a mis-quote over the need to measure the process of review, distribution and implementation of customer engineering specs (two business weeks, as you know).

Andy
 

Marc

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#9
My guess is right up there with Sidney's, except for the possibility of a mis-quote over the need to measure the process of review, distribution and implementation of customer engineering specs (two business weeks, as you know).
Yup, but key word is "mathematical".

I can understand Jennifer's reply in the context of a big company. But now we're getting into a gray area of whether document control is technically a process as defined by TS 16949.

Number of services or Document deliveries / number of requisitions (to register, controlled copy, not controlled copy)*100
How many controlled documents does your company have?
Do you do a monthly report?

Any further details you provide will be appreciated.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
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#10
I'm in a big company and we don't do a monthly report.

I suspect it's a case of either auditors gone wild, or misunderstanding. I'm not aware of any such requirement.

However, a standard question is, (paraphrased) "How do you know if your process is going well or not?" It would actually be easy to figure out if there is a positive or negative trend of escapes. To show such a trend over time would be at least as much as such an auditor has the right to ask for.
 
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