A much "needed speeding ticket" - Results of recent external audit

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#1
Last week I was in "stealth" mode here in the Cove as my site was experiencing a 3-year renewal audit to ISO 9001. I admit that in my daily excitement of my job, I thought that the audit was in June...early March I quickly discovered the reality was April. :mg: But surely a system as mature as our own could handle this tighter timeline to ensure that all was in order within our house right?

Well, after the closing meeting on Friday, I sat down with the auditors and used the following analogy. I like to speed. I traditionally do between 120-140 km/hour in a 100 kph zone. However, I have not been caught and will probably not actually do the speed limit until I am issued a ticket.

Our management system was issued 3 tickets last week. In the past, we have received minors that were weak in severity (e.g., micrometer found out of calibration, etc.). This time around, we received not only the speeding tickets but lost some demerit points, as well. :(

It was a hard - yet needed - reality check to the state of our managment system and a good reminder that we shouldn't take the "maturity" of our system for granted.

Findings include:
  1. The organization is required to include information on results of audits as inputs to management review. The process for management review at XXX (sidenote - XXX is a remote location on the scope of our certificate) did not include the results of audits as a management review input.
  2. The management review for the area being audited is required to ensure that actions are taken without undue delay to eliminate nonconformities and their causes. The management system failed to ensure that corrective actions to eliminate internal audit nonconformities were taken without undue delay.
  3. The organization is required to ensure that relevant versions of applicable documents are available at point of use. The system for document management failed to ensure that relevant versions of applicable documents were available in some cases.

All in all, it was a good reminder about the repercussions of getting too comfortable with the status quo. I hope my own experience will help some one else out there avoid a similiar moment.
 
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Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#2
  • The management review for the area being audited is required to ensure that actions are taken without undue delay to eliminate nonconformities and their causes. The management system failed to ensure that corrective actions to eliminate internal audit nonconformities were taken without undue delay.
That's the hard one isn't it?

For discrepancies that are complex, involve more than one department or will be very time consuming, have you an approach as in Corrective Action Projects? I put a form in this thread CAR not closed off by the time next audit rolls around. It might help.

Caution! The questions of timeliness and energy levels might still come up. Tracking CA Projects is its own challenge. :eek:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#3
Roxanne,

I think your analogy is a good one. Eventually, the long arm of the law will catch up with you.

#1.- Middle management in the organization do not embrace the quality system as an essential part of their job.

#2.- Quality representatives are not invited to the table.

IMO, many managers see Quality systems as these drones, that are supposed to be able to fly around, gather relevant intelligence, and report back whatever is important. But, no maintenance involved.

I just hope this doesn't reflect bad on you. You know, you are supposed to be the Radar Detector ! Ha! :)
 

GStough

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Roxanne,

...IMO, many managers see Quality systems as these drones, that are supposed to be able to fly around, gather relevant intelligence, and report back whatever is important. But, no maintenance involved....

:applause: :applause:

Love that description, Brad! Sad, but true too often...
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#5
Roxane, thanks for sharing.

I agree wholeheartedly that sometimes we just have to "get the ticket" before we realize we are treading in the path of harm. Even though it stings to get caught, nonconformances can do nothing except to strengthen your system.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#6
Caution! The questions of timeliness and energy levels might still come up. Tracking CA Projects is its own challenge. :eek:
I have allowed nonconformances to be closed in the past on the basis of improvement projects being established. Amusingly enough, we are pretty solid at updating our improvement projects and associated metrics.

BradM said:
IMO, many managers see Quality systems as these drones, that are supposed to be able to fly around, gather relevant intelligence, and report back whatever is important. But, no maintenance involved.
The right-foot kicker with the Management Review finding is that the rep at XXX is not permitted to go to the actual review. While that, in itself, is an issue, there is an easy fix - prepare slides and designate someone to talk about it.

The left-foot kicker is that when I asked for a copy of the minutes, XXX wouldn't share them due to the fact that they contain "personal and confidential" information. Okay, I replied, take out the P&C stuff...which shouldn't even be there to begin with (not in the management review minutes, at least). XXX refused to share the minutes...which to me implies that no review occurred. Call me cynical.

BradM said:
I just hope this doesn't reflect bad on you. You know, you are supposed to be the Radar Detector ! Ha!
Easier said than done. It was repeated several times that my role as the rep is to monitor and report, but unless I have the authority to get people to respond, my hands are tied. I can only nag so much.

The ironic part is that my boss wants me to spend less time babysitting the system. And I have been over the past year...look at the results. However, I know that it's not due to my lack of handholding, but more from ownership of the system not being accepted by other process (can't blame the people after all ;) )
 
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