A Registration Certificate...

blackholequasar

The Cheerful Diabetic
#1
Hello, folks! I am currently transitioning our company over to a controlled supplier process and found that one of the "ISO Certified" suppliers that we had been using is actually not certified, if I am reading this right... They provided a QAS International Registration Certificate which does not bear any seals or mention to ANAB or any other accredited body. The audits appear to be done on an annual basis and not on a 4-year cycle. When I searched the ANAB CB Directory, I came up with nothing for QAS International.

I informed the supplier that we cannot accept them as ISO certified (as their cert is not from a CB) and they are pushing back stating that they have been doing this since 2008 and never had an issue. Is anyone familiar with this company? QAS International? Perhaps I didn't do my homework deeply enough? This is for one of our critical suppliers, as well, that our facility has been ordering bare circuit boards from for population here. And I can say that in the few years I've been here, I have not seen any new orders placed with them so part of me wants to just disqualify them based on lack of use. I just don't want to make a judgement about the authenticity of someone's certificate that is completely wrong.
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#4
Is anyone familiar with this company?
They and many other alternatively-accredited, pseudo-accredited and self-accredited CB's have been discussed here so many times. Do a search and you will find it. Also, be aware that there are CB's accredited under an IAF recognized program that are sub-standard. Check Interesting Discussion - The proliferation of Accreditation Bodies in the USA Since the low cost path has been introduced, Accreditation is no longer what was supposed to be.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#5
Hello, folks! I am currently transitioning our company over to a controlled supplier process and found that one of the "ISO Certified" suppliers that we had been using is actually not certified, if I am reading this right... They provided a QAS International Registration Certificate which does not bear any seals or mention to ANAB or any other accredited body. The audits appear to be done on an annual basis and not on a 4-year cycle. When I searched the ANAB CB Directory, I came up with nothing for QAS International.

I informed the supplier that we cannot accept them as ISO certified (as their cert is not from a CB) and they are pushing back stating that they have been doing this since 2008 and never had an issue. Is anyone familiar with this company? QAS International? Perhaps I didn't do my homework deeply enough? This is for one of our critical suppliers, as well, that our facility has been ordering bare circuit boards from for population here. And I can say that in the few years I've been here, I have not seen any new orders placed with them so part of me wants to just disqualify them based on lack of use. I just don't want to make a judgement about the authenticity of someone's certificate that is completely wrong.
You are looking for all the right things: :applause:
  • Accredited registrars are required to include their AB's approved symbol on the ISO certificates they issue.
  • ISO registration by accredited CBs is done on a 3 year cycle.
  • Searching for the CB in the Accredited Bodies is the default evidence. Please be advised you may need to search more than one.
Some ABs go so far as to list their de-listed CBs and gives explanations, such as with AGS who I have followed for some time. QAS International doesn't show up on their list because it appears they never got accredited with ANAB in the first place.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
I just thought they were an interesting case. In the early 2000's they were accredited by RAB but were suspended after failing audit(s) based on (I think) insufficient time on site. I believe that was the reason because they describe the process as issuing a certificate after a satisfactory documentation review and proof of implementation, and that they "...reserve(s) the right to perform an on-site visit..."

They continued to use the RAB symbol and were sued in the state of MA to stop. RAB won (of course) and AGS stopped using the symbol. Then they started showing AIAO-Bar symbol on their certificates. So I looked up AIAO-Bar. This AB's web site was crude HTML and sort of resembled AGS's web site. I checked the web site registries and found they had the same IP address. Their Contact information even listed the same guy, Mr. Stephen Keneally, President. I would have thought they would try harder to cover their tracks, not allow people to see the same guy owned both the CB and AB.

Since then both sites are more elegant and have changed their Contact names, and updated location addresses. They still have the same web host though, with the same Name Servers IP addresses.

- Updated to correct the name of the original AB, added a link and date range -
 
Last edited:

jmech

Trusted Information Resource
#9
I recommend clarifying (in writing) your requirements for suppliers. Anybody can be "ISO certified" by a sketchy CB (or themselves).

If you want the supplier to "maintain ISO 9001 certification from a CB that maintains accreditation from an AB that is a member of the International Accreditation Forum (IAF)", then write that in your supplier requirements and ensure that suppliers are aware of it (preferably include it in your contract with them). If you only want to permit specific CBs or CBs accredited by specific ABs, then write that in your supplier requirements.
 

blackholequasar

The Cheerful Diabetic
#10
I recommend clarifying (in writing) your requirements for suppliers. Anybody can be "ISO certified" by a sketchy CB (or themselves).

If you want the supplier to "maintain ISO 9001 certification from a CB that maintains accreditation from an AB that is a member of the International Accreditation Forum (IAF)", then write that in your supplier requirements and ensure that suppliers are aware of it (preferably include it in your contract with them). If you only want to permit specific CBs or CBs accredited by specific ABs, then write that in your supplier requirements.
A very good point! And the supplier with that certificate did push back stating that we never required for them to be a member of IAF/ANAB. I guess nothing 'goes without saying' haha so I will be sure to update that in our wording. (though there are sometimes exceptions with sole-sourced or customer driven suppliers, so I'll have to word it accordingly but still maintain that the cert can't be from Ronald McDonald)
 
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