A VERY Small Company - Internal Audit

[Al Dyer]

Don't think of your situation in a bad way! Just cover your *** with documentation before the auditor arrives. Chances are that you will be blamed and called incompetant when a registration audit fails. Then you will be asked to help gloss over or answer the CAR's.

Chances are that the auditor will already know the situation before-hand but don't hide anything, it is your reputation on the line, not the owners.

I don't know your background as far as being an auditor or M.R. although it sounds as if you are fairly new to parts of the process. Take it in stride and use the situation as a learing tool in the next phase of your career.

I doubt that you will find many people here who "haven't" been screwed or made the scapegoat for quality issues. The good part is that it toughens up the skin and can only help you in the future.

Al...

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

doubleas said:
---X--
Any idea on how i can point the registrar in the "right" direction? (without losing my job)

Only one idea: Do not do it. Energy & Al are quite right You shouldn't do it, and if I read things correctly you have no reason to:

The facts are there to be seen, and only so much can be covered up. If your description of the situation is accurate (Which I do not doubt), any half decent auditor will realize what's going on. Let the facts speak for themself.

In the mean time, do what the others already told you to do: Cover your back as well as possible by doing your part of the job, and look hard for another employer.

/Claes

 

[tomvehoski]

I have asked auditors to write findings against clients on a couple occasions. Always minor things that they really needed to fix but for some reason would not believe me. A minor from an auditor seems to motivate an owner much more than an internal audit finding from an employee or consultant.

I agree that it is risky to offer up the information to the auditor, but if he/she finds it on their own, don't try to deny it. Trying to lie your way through an audit can be very risky and can make things much worse. If it is a valid nonconformance, accept it, fix it and move on.

I would also make sure that you write everything you know about as an internal audit finding. One, it will point the auditor too it when audit records are reviewed, so you won't have to offer any additional verbal info durin the audit. Two it will cover you from blame later.

Tom

 

[energy]

CYOA

Claes Gefvenberg said:

In the mean time, do what the others already told you to do: Cover your back as well as possible by doing your part of the job, and look hard for another employer.

/Claes

We always give this advice and it's time for me to play devil's advocate. We document our actions. We make sure we have records of these actions off site, just in case. Now, in a large Corporation with many Managers in position to possibly do you in, this effort will assist you in explaining to a higher authority why you did or not do something. In the current case under discussion, what good does it do? The Pres isn't going to be sympathetic if he/she insists that it's doubleas' fault.
In my case, I maintained records showing my innocence, if you will, in the failed effort to achieve certification. Names, places, times, uncompleted tasks, etc. and it meant absolutely nothing to the CEO. In fact, it pointed to his failure to commit and use his influence on his Managers to get the job done. Maybe in days of old, when you were allowed to sue for unlawful discharge, these records would have helped you in obtaining compensation if you fell under the axe. Today, forget it. Employment At Will states, etc.. So, I maintain that keeping records of your actions is still a good idea, however, in most cases it's an exercise in futility. But, it will make you feel good thinking otherwise. I can look at all my notes and records now, knowing full well I was jobbed, but it changed nothing. Out the door she went!!

 

[Mike S.]

Energy,

Granted in some cases records might not help you defend your work and keep your job -- as in your case. Still, did your records not help your case for getting unemployment immediately with no penalty vs. being "dismissed for cause" and not getting unemployment or forced to suffer a penalty? Also, in some (hopefully rare) cases these records might be needed to defend yourself in legal action if your company is sued for fraud, etc. and someone tries to pin it all on the guy who was "let go".

 

[energy]

Mike S. said:

Energy,

Granted in some cases records might not help you defend your work and keep your job -- as in your case. Still, did your records not help your case for getting unemployment immediately with no penalty vs. being "dismissed for cause" and not getting unemployment or forced to suffer a penalty? Also, in some (hopefully rare) cases these records might be needed to defend yourself in legal action if your company is sued for fraud, etc. and someone tries to pin it all on the guy who was "let go".

Mike,

In those cases you mention, absolutely. I'm not saying that it isn't a bad idea. I'm talking about doubleas' situation and the advice given, only.

As for me, there wasn't even an inquiry from the hearing person regarding documentation. In this State, unemployment isn't denied based on performance. Otherwise, companies could just say you weren't performing satisfactorily and deny you benefits and dodge their responsibility to ante up. In my case, it was called "Wilful Misconduct". Yup, the same thing you would receive if you caused damage to property or personnel. However, damage as described would deny you benefits. Wilful misconduct, in my case, is interpreted as "Not acting in the best interests of the company". "Failure to perform duties hired to do", something like that. Very broad and deliberately vague. And, I was hired to get them Registered to ISO. Forget why it didn't happen. The buck stopped here. And they really stopped. What really bothers me was that it was just before Christmas and designed to prevent me finding another job. Imagine having that on your resume? M.F.'s.

 

[doubleas]

auggh!!!

I should have left when i had the chance!
Okay, so basically what you are saying is sit back and hope he's found out at our assessment? Okay. It's obvious because the pres writes up these monthly reports saying how we progress on our objectives. I was looking through them and every one for the last year said "No customer complaints". When we had our ISO coordinator, we had complaints. (not about her) I hope he'll see that. He documented one complaint in the 6 months before she left because he had too. It had to do with something she did and it got to the customer. So she knew about it.

As far as catching him on audits, forget it. We used to do two audit cycles per year. Now he insists we don't need it (which is bull, because our design audits are a total write off) I have caught him on a few things, at the instruction of former ISO coordinator. She couldn't do anything without the conflict so i did. (He doesn't treat me like he treated her) It was almost like no one was ever going to find out. He got mad, wanted me to just not write it up, he'll fix it without a CAR. NOT! Every periodic assessment we've had he's hoped it never got found out. You'd think, if he knew, he'd fix the problem yes?? Yeah right, just hope no one finds out because it would cost him money to fix it. Well, I don't care how much money it costs, it's not my problem. I wrote it up. He was livid. too bad.
Every day I see something that would be a C/P. Here's a small one for you, we don't have an audit schedule posted. Last audit was mine in december, It's now april. Hmmm,,, registrar has issued TWO for that over two years. First time was when the company was being certified, (cause was, "wasn't aware we had too") and second time was the same cause!!!
Our periodic assessments never used to bother me. Everyone would flutter about make sure everything is okay before the big day. I knew i was doing MY job so i didn't care. Now, pres makes me feel like the whole system is my responsibility and if something goes wrong it's my fault. Probably get "well, obviousy you didn't hide it well enough" Well, the system is NOT my responsiblity and i won't be held accountable for it. My audits, yes. My job as it affects the quality system, yes. But as for all the other stuff. Nope. He needs to hire someone to be his scapegoat.

 

[CINDY]

Doubleas,

You realize that a repetative nonconformance can turn into a major one.

Keep looking for a new job. You have pride in you work, it shows. That is a valuable addition to any company.

Cindy

 

[Randy]

Doubleas,

Stand up, hook up, shuffle to the door, jump right out and count to four! (Oh yeah, the little red truck probably ain't at the DZ either)

I have 125 airborne jumps, all painful. Finding another place to hang your hat can hurt too, but only a little while. It sounds like your going to be meat on the table regardless of what you do.

Pay attention to Claes and the others. BAIL OUT!

 

[energy]

Ah, to be young!

Randy said:

Doubleas,

Pay attention to Claes and the others. BAIL OUT!

Not bad advice unless you are in your mid 50's and up. Then, the meat on the table can be a real issue. I've talked to some people at the workshop and some have been out over two years, with no prospects in sight. Every one of them was a professional something or other in their prime. What do we have in common? Age. Just be careful. The grass always looks greener intil you step in something.