Accurately applying a specific clause to a Non Conformance

  • Thread starter yashabhi252 - 2009
  • Start date
Y

yashabhi252 - 2009

#1
:truce:Dear All,

I work as an MR in a service industry. After every 6 months our company conducts internal audits to asses the non compliance in the system.
I would like to know if there is any such website or a guide with a list of probable NC's & applicable clauses which I can use as a reference to accurately apply a specific clause to a possible non conformance as this could become tricky. Although I do realise that such knowledge comes only through a few years of experience in audits.
 
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Big Jim

Super Moderator
#2
Training and experience are the only things I know to help you apply the proper element of the standard to a nonconformance. Let me make a couple of comments though.

First, in an internal audit, if your quality and procedure manuals are written well, you can cite the nonconformance against your own documentation without citing the standard. It is not my preferred method, but it is a fairly common way to do it. That way your internal auditors audit directly to your own documentation.

Second, even after a good training class it helps to have some sort of reference material. The most useful I have found is "The Memory Jogger 9000/2000". It is based on ISO 9001:2000. It has recently been republished for the 2008 standard. It is published by Goal/QCP. I'm sure you can find it with a Google search. I used mine extensively for at least the first two years of my involvement with ISO and found it invaluable. I have not needed to open it for many months but I still carry it in my briefcase.
 
S

Sam4Quality

#3
Hi Yash:

Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave::bigwave::bigwave:

Well, I don't think there are any such websites that would give what you are asking for, atleast I ain't aware!

Raising an NC against a clause is not all that tricky a business, though I would say that you (the auditor) should have a good understanding of the interpretation of the standards. If an NC is ever raised, it has to be raised against a certain clause in the standard and the standard has EIGHT clauses. You just have to recognize the clause that corresponds to the NC in question. Is that so tricky? Or maybe I am making it out to be too simple!? :D

Ciao. :cool:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
<snip>If an NC is ever raised, it has to be raised against a certain clause in the standard and the standard has EIGHT clauses. You just have to recognize the clause that corresponds to the NC in question. Is that so tricky? Or maybe I am making it out to be too simple!? :D

Ciao. :cool:
Actually the standard has only five "chapters" that actually contain requirements (4-5-6-7-8) including ALL their sub-clauses.

Stijloor.
 
S

Sam4Quality

#5
Originally Posted by Stijloor


Actually the standard has only five "chapters" that actually contain requirements (4-5-6-7-8) including ALL their sub-clauses.

Stijloor
Exactly! Doesn't that make it simpler?

Ciao. :cool:
 
Y

yashabhi252 - 2009

#6
:truce:Hey Guys,

I appreciate all your replies. I would have really liked some online guide for reference with various circumstances & applicable clauses. I hope someone would work on this concept as it would save some consultancy fees.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
:truce:Hey Guys,

I appreciate all your replies. I would have really liked some online guide for reference with various circumstances & applicable clauses. I hope someone would work on this concept as it would save some consultancy fees.
I do not know if you did or not, but if you attended an internal auditing course, you should have learned how to write nonconformity reports including citing the appropriate requirement that was violated.

Look here for some threads and posts. Some additional searching is required. ;)

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
:truce:Hey Guys,

I appreciate all your replies. I would have really liked some online guide for reference with various circumstances & applicable clauses. I hope someone would work on this concept as it would save some consultancy fees.
I don't think you'll find anything like what you're looking for. If your process requirements are properly designed (i.e., in compliance with the relevant ISO requirements) you'll only need to audit against your internal requirements. An internal audit can be performed without any sort of reference to the standard.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#9
:truce:Hey Guys,

I appreciate all your replies. I would have really liked some online guide for reference with various circumstances & applicable clauses. I hope someone would work on this concept as it would save some consultancy fees.
It sounds like you're asking for a list of all possible things that could go wrong, along with corresponding clause numbers. In my opinion there are way too many things that could be nonconformities in an audit to come up with a comprehensive list that would be useful. Each organization and its implementation is unique, so there are an infinite number of things that could go wrong.

The alternative would be to write a generic list that could apply to any organization. If it was done, it would probably look just like the standard itself with the word "shall" replaced with "did not" throughout the text.
 
S

Sirlard

#10
I agree with Jim Wynne. An internal audit is for assuring the Quality Management System, within a company, is working as documented. The internal audit, once a company has been certified, needs to audit to their QMS. If there are revisions to processes and documentation, prior to the change taking place is the time to make sure there is no conflict with the standard. The registrar is the one looking at both the standard and the QMS documentation when auditing.
 
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