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Adding More Procedures than are Required by ISO 9001

M

MDWEEK

#1
Do i have the ability to add as much procedures as i can to the procedures standards as far as it will strengthen the system for example I need to add these procedures to my system of a construction company
Project Selection & KSI
Risk Management
Hazards
SubcontractorAssessment
and others that may have no direct relation to the standard

can i ?
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: adding more procedures than in standard

Yes you can add any procedure you wish. From a business perspective, I would only add documents (procedures, work instructions, etc.) that truly add value.

Stijloor.
 
C

Craig H.

#3
Do i have the ability to add as much procedures as i can to the procedures standards as far as it will strengthen the system for example I need to add these procedures to my system of a construction company
Project Selection & KSI
Risk Management
Hazards
SubcontractorAssessment
and others that may have no direct relation to the standard

can i ?
Absolutely. In fact, if you read "between the lines" the standard implies that more documents will likely be required where competency may not come standard with the people hired. This competency includes remembering dimensions, tolerences, etc.

I have never once heard of someone getting a nonconformance for having too many procedures. That said, a system laden with too many procedures not only reaches a point of diminishing returns, in (my) theory at some point adding more procedures will actually overload the people involved, making the performance worse.

As Stijloor said, make sure that each procedure not only adds value, but is consistent with the existing system.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
E

egarry

#4
Do i have the ability to add as much procedures as i can to the procedures standards as far as it will strengthen the system for example I need to add these procedures to my system of a construction company
Project Selection & KSI
Risk Management
Hazards
SubcontractorAssessment
and others that may have no direct relation to the standard

can i ?
Please add what your organization needs. Most companies I help get ISO 9001 certified end up with about 10 ~ 15 procedures.

Some other areas I often see include (but not limited to):
Management Reivew
Quality Objectives / Metrics / BOS / QOS
Training
Supplier Management
Quality Planning
Gage Control / Calibration
Equipment Maintenance Program (PM's)
 
#5
Please add what your organization needs. Most companies I help get ISO 9001 certified end up with about 10 ~ 15 procedures.

Some other areas I often see include (but not limited to):
Management Reivew
Quality Objectives / Metrics / BOS / QOS
Training
Supplier Management
Quality Planning
Gage Control / Calibration
Equipment Maintenance Program (PM's)

We must be careful to ensure that we're not simply doing this, i.e. writing procedures 'to get certified'. It is an all too common mistake to over document the system in order to get 'past the external auditor'.

As a result, the people who have to operate the system see a paper mountain and find little/no value in the documentation, since it's often written for them, but at a level of a 16 year old (with no work experience, I mean......)

The idea of developing the system should be that management with the help of their staffs identify what documentation is required to ensure effective control over a process, not whether another procedure needs to be written.

Those of us who have experience of consulting and training should not be too prompt to respond with, 'yeah, write what you want, don't worry if ISO says you need it'............

Such an approach is what got ISO a bad name originally, as a bureacracy and helped coin the phrase 'say what you do, do what you say'................man was that wrong!!

:2cents:
 
E

egarry

#6
We must be careful to ensure that we're not simply doing this, i.e. writing procedures 'to get certified'. It is an all too common mistake to over document the system in order to get 'past the external auditor'.

As a result, the people who have to operate the system see a paper mountain and find little/no value in the documentation, since it's often written for them, but at a level of a 16 year old (with no work experience, I mean......)

The idea of developing the system should be that management with the help of their staffs identify what documentation is required to ensure effective control over a process, not whether another procedure needs to be written.

Those of us who have experience of consulting and training should not be too prompt to respond with, 'yeah, write what you want, don't worry if ISO says you need it'............

Such an approach is what got ISO a bad name originally, as a bureacracy and helped coin the phrase 'say what you do, do what you say'................man was that wrong!!

:2cents:
Thank you for adding the additional guidance. I agree that a company shouldn't over-document their systems. I meant to suggest that they document what is essential to their needs.:bonk:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
ISO9001:2000 4.2.1 said:
The quality management system documentation shall include

d) documents needed by the organization to ensure the effective planning, operation and control of its processes,
helped coin the phrase 'say what you do, do what you say'................man was that wrong!!
The idiot imbecile gentleman who coined that phrase did a great disservice to the quality profession.
 
Last edited:
C

CliffK

#8
Do i have the ability to add as much procedures as i can to the procedures standards as far as it will strengthen the system for example I need to add these procedures to my system of a construction company
Project Selection & KSI
Risk Management
Hazards
SubcontractorAssessment
and others that may have no direct relation to the standard

can i ?
You can add them.

What do you hope to accomplish by adding them? And after you've added them, how will you know they have done what you wanted?
 
M

Mr Niceguy

#9
Do i have the ability to add as much procedures as i can to the procedures standards as far as it will strengthen the system for example I need to add these procedures to my system of a construction company
Project Selection & KSI
Risk Management
Hazards
SubcontractorAssessment
and others that may have no direct relation to the standard

can i ?
Our 9001 core Quality Manual (for which I am not responsible) consists of about 40 management system procedures that accurately describe our business and no one elses. They are all necessary and useful for staff, particularly new entrants. We have deliberately avoided a 9001 manual that mirrors the standard, although the procedures could always map across to 9001 clauses if required. We and the certifying body are comfortable with this. Our internal audit team does not even have to audit compliance to 9001 clauses. They audit to our procedures which they know well.
 
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