Advice on becoming an ISO Management Systems Consultant

[Big Jim]

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it, but becoming an auditor for one or more of the many certification bodies can be a huge help. That gets you into a lot of different companies so you can observe how they function and it helps you understand how auditors function, greatly helping you to be a more effective consultant.

That is not a complete answer though, as that itself still doesn't get you in the door as a consultant. You still need to pay attention to all else that was posted.

 

[JaneB]

I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned it, but becoming an auditor for one or more of the many certification bodies can be a huge help.

Agree this can be helpful but in future, not at this point for the same reason.

None of the certification companies I have anything to do with would have any interest at all in someone wanting to be an auditor but who had zero experience to offer. (Why would they?)

And if any certification company proposed to any client of mine an auditor with zero business experience, I'd reject them immediately. And seek out better certifiers.

 

[Marc]

There are certification companies that take people in and train them. It's not very common these days because there are so many "auditors" out there, but it's not unheard of.

I'm not sure what you mean by "zero experience", but people have to start somewhere. I am a biologist by education. Many years ago I got into the business world by applying to a company looking for someone with experience with a specific Mil-Standard. I had none, but I got a copy of the standard and called the company. I got an interview and was hired on the spot over some people who had experience with the standard. In talking to my boss later on he said he hired me because of my initiative of getting a copy of the standard and by the time of the interview I could tell him everything about it, it's requirements and how to carry them out. I had also researched their product line and could discuss how the standard applied to their products, required testing and related information.

Each person is different. I stand as a person who got a job with no experience in the field who got that job over people who had experience.

Tracey's son is another example. He got his masters in math and statistics. He had no biological, much less medical, background. His first job out of grad school was in medical research at a salary of over US$70K. He had a lot of job offers (Wright-Patterson in Dayton, Ohio was one off the big bidders if I remember correctly). None of them cared if he knew squat about their industry. They wanted his ability to work with numbers. He chose the medical research job (out of quite a few offers) because he wanted to work in a clean, quiet place.

Experience is only part of the equation, and many times it isn't the deciding factor.

That said, some of this thread is about consulting. In consulting it is different in that *most* consulting does require experience in the field. But again, it depends upon the type of consulting. I have done a lot of consulting in business standards and business systems - Everything from call centers to general manufacturing to high reliability aerospace device companies.

One the things I loved about my career is I went into so many different industries and saw (and learned) how they were run, including many, many different types of processes. With each new experience I built upon my areas of expertise.

As a last thought, I have a friend who got a job with P&G right out of college. I forget what he started as, but it was a rather low level managerial job. Over the years they moved him to many different facilities around the world where he learned how they did business at different facilities, including different products and different processes. He retired as a high level executive a few years back.

 

[JaneB]

I wrote in response to the OP's question. He said he is a "student coming to my final few months of my course (BSc Environmental Management) I have studied and built a fictional ISO:9001:2008 and ISO:14001:2004. As I know there a market out there for building ISO for business I don’t know how to get into that market??". He went on to ask if he could just set up his own consulting firm.

No, it's not completely unheard of for a certifier to take someone in and train them... but very, very rare (at least here) and would only occur where the certifier simply cannot find anyone with the relevant experience. Again, experience comes first.

Now, if the question was 'how do I get my first job out of college', you make some good points. Of course people have to start somewhere. And I well recall how tough it was to get my first 'real job' and that horrible Catch 22 of 'get experience and we might hire you' and my frustrated thoughts of 'how the hell can I get experience without being hired?'. But that's not the topic of this thread (at least, I don't think it is).

And my unchanged opinion is that no one wants a consultant or an auditor without real world, relevant experience. The more, the better.

 

[Marc]

I was responding in general, Jane. My point is experience is nice, but it isn't always a necessity. It is only part of the equation.

 

[Big Jim]

There does seem to be a shortage of auditors and indeed there are certification bodies that have training programs to get auditors started. I know a few auditors that got into auditing straight out of college as well, some of them rose into leadership positions with their certification body.

It is well worth investigating.

 

[Wes Bucey]

I've been hesitant to weigh in on this topic simply because I was a little stunned by the chutzpah of an inexperienced, textbook-knowledge-only person presuming that knowledge was all it took to be a consultant.

However, Marc's comment about his lady friend's son reminded me that the most important thing for any job or assignment seeker is to be able to offer value to the employer or client. For consultants and "contractors" (temporary workers), it is doubly important to be able to articulate that value to the prospect in order to set himself apart from the herd and get hired.

So, for our OP (Sinatra321), it is certainly a good idea to read through the thread I started years ago, Consulting ? Is it in YOUR Career Future?, but also let me suggest a review of my post on developing a Skills Assessment Matrix which I made in response to a query about moving from a small company to a large company.

I'm not in the business of discouraging sincere folks, I AM in the business of showing folks how to fill gaps in their SAM to present the best value to a prospective employer. Sometimes those gaps are education or experience, but the one gap most difficult to fill is "personality" - some might even term it "character."

So, Sinatra321, I put it to you that it is "possible" that you have the skills, knowledge and experience to be a consultant off the get go, but you had better take the time to assemble such data and craft it for a persuasive presentation to prospective employers.

 

[Sinatra321]

Hi Wes,

I have met up with a consultant for a certified company for a chat on the industry, who advised me to do a BSI auditing course 9001? I about to graduate and still keep getting the knock back for voluntary work. I can understand to a point as I will hopefully be competing against other consultants for work. All I can do at the moment is do desk top studying and keep emailing and calling consultants. Another thing is I feel the industry is full of people who have been made redundant and decided to go into ISO consultancy, were I am only 23 years old and have chosen to do this as my career from the start.

 

[Wes Bucey]

It is not true that "all [you] can do is . . ."
Have you made ANY attempt at putting together a SAM as referred above?
The critical part of a SAM is researching and listing the "wants" of prospective employers (specific companies as well as general industries) and then comparing their wants with your skill set. Find ways to fill the gaps. and then move forward.

One of the industries you may research is the third party auditing industry to determine if there are currently any who are accepting "trainees." The task, of course, is to use your SAM to convince them you are a good prospect for trainee. How will you do that? That's part of the skill set you need!

 

[Sharon_Noble]

Reading through this post I have to chuckle...I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. I have been working in quality for over 14 years but have no formal education (University). I have been trained as an auditor and have been leading audits since 2005. I started in Document Control and have worked my way up to Quality Manager. The company I work for is being shut down soon and I am struggling to find anyone that will hire me in a similar role. Most job applications are now online and if I do not click the box that states I have a degree my application never gets to anyone that will actually read it and see all the experience I have.

My current situation does not allow me to go back to school right now so I am wondering what could I do to get my foot in the door (so to speak)