Advice on documentation for project I am working on...

#1
Hi folks - first time posting on here as I only just found this forum!

Quick bit of background, I am currently the QA Manager on a section of a very high-profile rail project and am not happy with the apparent acceptance level by those authorised to accept and sign off documents prior to my tenure starting in September.
On these documents there are boxes for a date to be included, signatures to be inserted and a plethora of other information boxes which in my opinion should be either completed with a simple yes/no/na response but are left blank and then signed off as accepted
In my 20 years experience I have not encountered such a poor standard but it has prompted me to question if I am being to demanding or not in asking for a full revamp and that all such issues above are eradicated by simply filling out the information correctly.

I am a devil for the details and on every project at MEP/Commissioning/project handover stages I would always reject ANY document that had any such issues and get it to be resubmitted correctly and as far as I'm concerned, 9001 requires these said blank boxes with missing info/dates/signatures to be a requirement.

I guess my question is a simple one - am I correct?

Thanks...
 
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#3
Well I seem to recall the gentleman who ran the Internal Auditing course I passed a few months ago stating this...

Is that not correct though?

He also said that where boxes are present and information of some form is being asked for, it should be completed with information and not just left blank..
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#4
It's not a requirement as far as 9001 goes. It's good practice to at least use N/A rather than leaving things blank. Like everything else, it's all about risk. Is there a risk of confusion or something bad happening if fields are left blank? Is it obvious from context that something isn't necessary? It's a judgment call.
 
#5
thanks so much for shedding some light on it buddy!

Being a construction project my philosophy is always belt and braces just incase and it is very much a risk for our company to be submitting documentation for acceptance by the client with these bits of information missing and it could leave us open should anything happen in the future.

Having worked on handover documentation I would always stipulate that any box asking for some kind of detail is not left blank and don't see why I shouldn't maintain the same stance on this job...
 

Brakeman

Involved In Discussions
#6
I say it is required. The QMS requires the process documentation be updated and controlled to support the processes. If you do not answer questions that have been added to the QMS as needing to be answered, then you are not following your QMS process. If the questions are not needed or need to be reworded, then you've failed to correctly maintain and update your QMS.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
#7
I say it is required. The QMS requires the process documentation be updated and controlled to support the processes. If you do not answer questions that have been added to the QMS as needing to be answered, then you are not following your QMS process. If the questions are not needed or need to be reworded, then you've failed to correctly maintain and update your QMS.
If you want to say that it's an ISO 9001 requirement, you'll need to cite a specific requirement in the standard. If there are fields that must be completed, there should be an internal requirement to that effect. This comes up sometimes when questions are asked about whether or not forms need to be controlled. They don't need to be controlled so long as the information that's required has been suitable documented. In such cases, a "convenient format" may be provided without being controlled. If the documented requirements for recording information haven't been satisified, there's a nonconformity.
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#8
If I was to site an ISO 9001 requirement, it would cite: 7.5.3.2 "Documented information retained as evidence of conformity shall be protected from unintended alterations.". This is a bit of a stretch, but leaving a field blank allows someone to later 'add' information.

Again, this is a stretch but a blank field can be altered later by someone else.
 

Johnny Quality

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Welcome Joey,

What does the organization do when the fields are left blank? Do you need the fields at all? Are you breaking your own procedures by not filling in the fields?
 
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