AIAG's FMEA Manual 4th Edition Released - 2nd July 2008

  • Thread starter Umang Vidyarthi
  • Start date
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chaosweary

#41
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

I am curious as to why the 4th edition manual will now be more than twice as thick as the 3rd edition manual.
Anyone have any idea?
I worked every angle to try and get my employer to pay for me to travel to either Michigan or Ohio for the rollout events, but it just wasn't in the budget.
I have to laugh, this is what my boss told me as well. Order it and we will learn from there...
 
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Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#42
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

I have to laugh, this is what my boss told me as well. Order it and we will learn from there...
The FMEA Process has not changed at all. You'll be fine.

I have been to a roll-out conference before; in retrospect, it was not a real good use of my money.

The manual does a good job explaining and reemphasizing the important points of FMEA. The form has an additional column, no big deal.

If organizations have done a sloppy job with the FMEA Process before, this new (updated) manual is not going to help them very much.

It all starts with the right intent anyway...

Happy Studying.

Stijloor.
 
Z

zancky

#43
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

I have got some points:

1) why for a standard there isn't any "public hearing"? EPA do it, Aiag not. is AIAG clever?
2) Why to pay? knowledge should be free. For non-automotive parts I keep on using the current edition and for automotive I will wait for my customer updating (normally they have their own taylored FMEA therefore...)
3) ISO TS suggests the use of FMEA, not AIAG one and AIAG states it is a reference documents, so we are free in the choice until a customer will required it
4) RPN if it is not a trigger, what else if not an objective way of decision?
one could modified saying all RPN >125 must have an action or whenever RPN times a "achieaveble" index (doesn't cost 10, a immense effort 1) is > 400 e.g.
5) the use of FMEA by customer. One of the biggest european industry provides a reference manual for PFMEA and their auditor check how You apply it. It states occurence must be > 2 (because nothing is impossible), every out of tollerance has got severity 9, a 100% manual inspection can not have Detection better then 7 so RPN=2*7*9=126. Production can not start if RPN is >125! The only solution for the (poor) supplier should be to buy at his own expence a 100% full automatic inspection machine for all the drawing dimensions. It sounds like a joke but it is the truth
6) why we focus our attention on FMEA etc and not on product specifications and drawings? Both are the base for all the rest

sorry for have given vent for my anger
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#44
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

1) why for a standard there isn't any "public hearing"? EPA do it, Aiag not. is AIAG clever?
EPA is a government entity and AIAG is a private concern. AIAG does encourage feedback (e.g., there's a feedback form in the back of the most recent editions of MSA and SPC) but there's no telling how much attention they pay to it.

2) Why to pay? knowledge should be free. For non-automotive parts I keep on using the current edition and for automotive I will wait for my customer updating (normally they have their own taylored FMEA therefore...)
Go to your local bookstore and ask why the materials in their reference section aren't free. Someone has to pay.
3) ISO TS suggests the use of FMEA, not AIAG one and AIAG states it is a reference documents, so we are free in the choice until a customer will required it
Yes, but most customers (at least in the US) require use of the AIAG FMEA manual, and specify its contents as requirements.
4) RPN if it is not a trigger, what else if not an objective way of decision?
one could modified saying all RPN >125 must have an action or whenever RPN times a "achieaveble" index (doesn't cost 10, a immense effort 1) is > 400 e.g.
Not sure what you're after here, but it's generally agreed that RPN "trigger" or threshold values are a bad thing. There's been some discussion of the subject here.
5) the use of FMEA by customer. One of the biggest european industry provides a reference manual for PFMEA and their auditor check how You apply it. It states occurence must be > 2 (because nothing is impossible), every out of tollerance has got severity 9, a 100% manual inspection can not have Detection better then 7 so RPN=2*7*9=126. Production can not start if RPN is >125! The only solution for the (poor) supplier should be to buy at his own expence a 100% full automatic inspection machine for all the drawing dimensions. It sounds like a joke but it is the truth
It sounds like the customer is significantly misguided. There's not much you can do about it once the work has been accepted and the contract is signed. If production can't start until the RPN drops below 125, then make the RPN 124 and off you go. That's why triggers are a bad idea.
6) why we focus our attention on FMEA etc and not on product specifications and drawings? Both are the base for all the rest
If things are done correctly, specifications and drawings are output of the DFMEA process, or are affected by the DFMEA process. You do FMEA in any case because it's a good idea to understand potential failures of designs and processes and do something to prevent them if it's possible.

sorry for have given vent for my anger
No need to apologize--we all get frustrated now and again. :D
 
Z

zancky

#45
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

Hi Jim,
sorry but I'm still not convinced

1) product specification is the first document as it is the input for the designer ideas/drawing
DFMEa shall "check" drawings and ideas respect to product specification.
Therefore it should not affect product specification or only marginal aspects.

2) I can accept to buy a book, a manual etc. there is a lot of effort to write. But I can not accept that I have to buy a standard, the organisations that write the standards are already paied by the governements, companies etc. It will a great improvement for the world when the standards will be freely available to everybody.


P.S. the famous customer checks PFMEA after Your investiments and before sign off for production/PAPP so it is not possible to hide/correct the results. One of mine friends has felt the same frustrating experience with the same customer (but different auditor so it is a company policy). The solution is to "make" a mistake write a wrong number under occurence or detection. This number will be check next audit so You make another mistake on detection (if it was first on occurence) etc. Once you are in production for one year they stop to ask for PFMEA.
 
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Umang Vidyarthi

#47
Re: AIAG's FMEA 4th Edition

Friends,

The Chrysler, Ford Motor Company, and General Motors Supplier Quality Requirements Task Force, in conjunction with March Quality Services, has released an updated quality forms CD.

The quality Core Tools Forms Disc has been updated to reflect changes in the new FMEA Fourth Edition and APQP Second Edition reference manuals. Exclusively available from AIAG, the updated Core Tool Forms Disc includes the forms for APQP Second Edition, PPAP Fourth Edition, FMEA Fourth Edition and MSA Third Edition manuals.

Sample Forms Include:

Control Plan
Product Quality Planning Summary and Approvals Worksheet
Product Quality Planning Checklist
Team Feasibility Commitment
Design FMEA
Process FMEA
Special Characteristics Matrix Worksheet
Appearance Approval Worksheet
Attribute GR&R Worksheets
Part Submission Warrant Worksheet
Production Part Approval — Dimensional, Material Test and Performance Test Results

The CD is available here: https://www.aiag.org/source/library/ordershome.cfm?section=orders&activesection=orders

Umang :D
 
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