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Alternate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

Randy

Super Moderator
#11
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

How about:

apple

orange

banana

peach

You can call the stuff anything you want as long as you can keep is straight as to what is what and do with them whatever is required. You could spend your time on more important things than this brain dead process.
 
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P

potdar

#12
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

Just go ahead and enjoy your creative skills to the fullest. One warning, though. You will need to translate your internal terms to the third party auditors (if you intend to deal with them) in their standard language - just to make your life easier.

Here in India we have 15 official languages - and many more. We do write our documentation in vernacular so that the common employee understands and knows it. Just because you are writing in english doesnt mean you shouldn't use the localese. Great idea. Frankly, I never tried it when writing in English. Talk of moving with blinkered eyes! You got me really thinking after a long time man. Thanks.

Your documents are meant for you. Not for the auditor. You can always help him understand - again to make your life easier.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#13
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

You could spend your time on more important things than this brain dead process.
In your own inimitable style Randy you derail a genuine issue with a gag.

Most of us here have issues with communication - some with their posts :notme: , others with getting details of nonconformities over to an irresponsive customer and others (those of us who have to get management systems in place) with getting a "one size fits all" standard to mean something to those who have to work with it in "their" world.

If the thread offends you - ignore it. Those of us who found this a breath of fresh air will carry on reading and posting.
 
B

BadgerMan

#14
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

I tend to agree with BradM and Randy.

It also appears to me that the implementers (cupoftea and company) my be trying to do a sales job with regard to compliance with the standard………”push a rope uphill” so to speak. IMO, if the management is committed to compliance and resulting maintenance of a certification, the language used in the internal process procedures should not be an issue. Quit trying to sugar coat things and get ‘er done.

However, if that is not the case, I am all for tailoring the terms to fit the culture of the organization as long as compliance is not jeopardized.

Good thread!
 
J

JaneB

#16
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

You could spend your time on more important things than this brain dead process.
Language is important. It colours perceptions & shapes experience.

Too many people in all kinds of fields either don't see this, or perhaps prefer the power of keeping terms arcane. I don't agree that spending time & energy on making sure that the terms used in a quality management system - how it is talked about & how it is written up - are suitable for the particular environment, the people in it, and the language that they use, so that it really reflects the particular organisation's context, values and understandings is wasted, let alone 'brain dead'.

In fact, far from it. Apart from supporting Internal Communications and assisting in Competence, awareness etc, if more people did put this kind of effort in to make sure that their quality management is real, embedded into their culture, then quality management might be better understood & applied.
 
J

JaneB

#17
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

Your documents are meant for you. Not for the auditor. You can always help him understand - again to make your life easier.
Absolutely right.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#18
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

In your own inimitable style Randy you derail a genuine issue with a gag.

Most of us here have issues with communication - some with their posts :notme: , others with getting details of nonconformities over to an irresponsive customer and others (those of us who have to get management systems in place) with getting a "one size fits all" standard to mean something to those who have to work with it in "their" world.

If the thread offends you - ignore it. Those of us who found this a breath of fresh air will carry on reading and posting.

You know Paul, in retrospect you're correct.:agree1:

Maybe I should have encouraged the original Poster to have his staff get on board with the rest of the world and use the common, accepted terms that are recognized from the Good Old Drafty English Isles to China and all places in between.

Naaaaaaaaaaa, that would be too easy and just make too much sense. Let's just prolong the poor persons agony and need.

Thanks for the advice, I really, really appreciate it.
 
Last edited:

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#19
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

Brian, I hope you are still with us on this thread. It was a great question. I hope, too, that you see this as a group who are passionate about quality, and there are some things that there is not a clear-cut right or wrong (as some others have correctly pointed out in their posts).

1. It is your system. You can definitely name/modify it however you want.

2. I still feel passionately, though, that there may be some underlying issues with perceiving a culture where we can't call things what they are. For example, you might correctly perceive an uncomfortable nature when you say "internal audit". Do they know what it is? Do they understand it? Do you have anybody trained to be internal auditors? Are the words really that bad, or is it what they entail?

3. After you have renamed everything, will it have sustainability after the "new" wears off? If you search the Cove, you will find a huge # of posts regarding measuring quality, customer satisfaction, etc. In my opinion, if you have some valuable brainstorming resources, I might suggest quality metrics is significantly more important than renaming Corrective Action.

4. After you rename what you choose to rename, the same level of effort will need to go into the activity. To me, it's like renaming laundry. You can call it whatever, but... it's still laundry! By no means am I saying quality activities equates to laundry, but hopefully I have made a point in there somewhere.

It's OK, and even admirable, to be sensitive to your group, and not wanting to just cram something at them. I just wonder if by developing measures of success (increased stock price, market share, raises, promotions, etc.) of the quality system, you will be able to keep their interest keen and sharp, no matter what you call it.

Please repost on this topic, and feel free to tell me I'm silly or whatever. But please do visit and tell us how things are going, and to re-post any questions you may have.
 
J

JaneB

#20
Re: Alturnate Terms for NonConformance, Internal Audits, Corrective and Preventative

You know Paul, in retrospect you're correct.:agree1:

Maybe I should have encouraged the original Poster to have his staff get on board with the rest of the world and use the common, accepted terms that are recognized from the Good Old Drafty English Isles to China and all places in between.

Naaaaaaaaaaa, that would be too easy and just make too much sense. Let's just prolong the poor persons agony and need.

Thanks for the advice, I really, really appreciate it.
Interesting. I often disagree with points of view in the forum, but this kind of response is unhelpful, not to mention discourteous. Why the need to heap scorn? Why, when various posts have indicated they found it helpful, such sarcasm?

I expect better, especially from a moderator. If you don't find the thread interesting, why not just stay out of it?
 
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