Am I the only one who thinks ISO9001 isn't good?

[jasonb067]

It is, for sure, but enlightened customers also know it's HOW product quality is controlled, to reduce the shock of variation. In fact, it's the very automotives you mention who pushed management systems and controls (tools) on suppliers because variation causes them problems! Are you confusing the need for certification with the implementation of a management system, perhaps?

NO, my point is those companies (Toyota and Honda) mainly that are better do not require compliance to ISO 9001. They have product and manufacturing process focused systems. I can go through an TS audit and never have to leave my desk.

 

[AndyN]

NO, my point is those companies (Toyota and Honda) mainly that are better do not require compliance to ISO 9001. They have product and manufacturing process focused systems. I can go through an TS audit and never have to leave my desk.

Going through a TS audit - with a poor auditor - is NOTHING to do with ISO 9001! You are confusing the two. If you chose a poor supplier who couldn't deliver a specific grade of materials (to an SAE spec) do you criticize the SAE spec? I don't think so. So why do you put up with a poor TS audit and then use that as justification of why ISO isn't any good?

Toyota and Honda have a different sourcing strategy to the rest of the automotives. They have a few key suppliers who are almost an extension of themsleves,so they can't really be compared.

 

[jasonb067]

I have used three companies over the course of my career and there has been no marked difference between the three (two of the three were "good" ones).

Comparing a tech. specification of parts and requirements of material to ISO9001 is not a direct comparison.

Why ISO is not good is based on my very limited observations. Where is the data which in an unbiased study indicates that ISO9001 companies produce superior product?

 

[AndyN]

Of course it is a direct comparison! A steel distributor has no influence over the ASTM specs, but they can have poor performance...

Superior product to what? ISO isn't about "superior products". That's another myth people buy into. It's about meeting customer requirements, in a consistent manner. Once again, what you are talking about isn't an "ISO" problem, it's the people who use it and there will always be poor organizations. Why not blame the people who (keep) saying that ISO is "say what you do..." etc?

 

[jasonb067]

Of course it is a direct comparison! A steel distributor has no influence over the ASTM specs, but they can have poor performance...

Superior product to what? ISO isn't about "superior products". That's another myth people buy into. It's about meeting customer requirements, in a consistent manner. Once again, what you are talking about isn't an "ISO" problem, it's the people who use it and there will always be poor organizations. Why not blame the people who (keep) saying that ISO is "say what you do..." etc?

ISO isn't about "superior products". Could not have said it better myself.

 

[insect warfare]

Of course it is a direct comparison! A steel distributor has no influence over the ASTM specs, but they can have poor performance...

Superior product to what? ISO isn't about "superior products". That's another myth people buy into. It's about meeting customer requirements, in a consistent manner. Once again, what you are talking about isn't an "ISO" problem, it's the people who use it and there will always be poor organizations. Why not blame the people who (keep) saying that ISO is "say what you do..." etc?

Exactly. Since when does ISO ever dictate "product" requirements....?

Brian

 

[AndyN]

ISO isn't about "superior products". Could not have said it better myself.

Quality isn't about superior products, it's about meeting customer requirements. Think McDonalds, not superior products, but millions get exactly what they want and are satisfied with the food, at the price etc..

ISO 9001 is a model for achieving customer requirements. I think you may be confused over the intent of implementing ISO 9001.

 

[jasonb067]

Quality isn't about superior products, it's about meeting customer requirements. Think McDonalds, not superior products, but millions get exactly what they want and are satisfied with the food, at the price etc..

ISO 9001 is a model for achieving customer requirements. I think you may be confused over the intent of implementing ISO 9001.

McDonalds does make superior product in their market. The product is the taste, speed and accuracy of the order among other things.

If I am confused over implementation I must be one lucky guy because I have made a career implementing and maintaining systems with very good results based on performance to customer (both internal and external).

 

[AndyN]

McDonalds does make superior product in their market. The product is the taste, speed and accuracy of the order among other things.

Again, the question: Superior to what? Quality isn't "superiority"...

 

[insect warfare]

The product is the taste, speed and accuracy of the order among other things.

Are you sure about that? McDonald's product is the food itself. The means by which they make the product (food), such as the taste (flavoring, seasoning), speed (line setup and optimization) and accuracy (ordertaking) - those are the processes.

Brian