An Etiquette Question

[D.Scott]

As do many of you, I live in a "culturally diverse" area. Sikhs wear turbans and carry knives on their belts. Orthodox Jews and Muslims wear headgear. Folks undergoing chemo or radiation therapy wear headgear to cover hair loss. It's sometimes best to ignore minor aspects and look to the entire transaction to determine whether or not someone intends to insult another. What does one do if one encounters a "germ phobe" who can't bear to shake hands at all?

The time has long passed where one culture can hope to impose its mores and ethics on another. Some use deceptive and dissembling language by claiming "security" or "hygiene" - but the intent is the same: "Conform to MY way!"

I never thought the day would come when I disagreed with Wes, but here it is. I just can't buy that time will ever pass when we can disregard the customs and traditions of another culture - let alone our own. We are talking about RESPECT here and the need for it will never pass. I think what needs to pass is the attitude that you can do whatever you like and others will just have to "get over it".

On the matter of meeting "Monk", I will still offer my hand. If he doesn't want to take it, that is his right but it is up to him to handle any misconceptions it might inspire.

Dave

 

[Charmed]

Thanks folks

Thanks for all the inputs. So, looks like it is settled - Vijay's not tipping his hat before shaking hands is no big deal. Now, I guess, if I do meet Vijay, I have something to talk about besides his golf and asking for his autograph.

Charmed

 

[Cari Spears]

It's sometimes best to ignore minor aspects and look to the entire transaction to determine whether or not someone intends to insult another.

I don't believe Wes was suggesting that we ignore or disrespect anyone's culture and traditions. When we were sent over to the Middle East, we spent one entire afternoon being lectured about their customs. Now if I had not had that training before I went over, I may have waved to someone with my left hand and UNINTENTIONALLY insulted someone.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Back from 2 days of classes. Interesting topic. You know, maybe I am just over the hill (but I don't think so), but manners are no longer what they used to be. I've noticed SteelWoman's observations since I moved to Dixieland, and it disturbs me. Maybe cuz I grew up in ranch country and a cowboy would never leave his hat on when introduced to a woman. I teach my boys to remove their baseball hats upon entering any building. (I have also taught them that it is expected of them to hold doors for anyone of the opposite sex, or anyone older than they)

Wes, I agree that there is a much more diverse culture than we once had. But, I am also observant enough and smart enough to tell the difference between a religious type head covering and one that is not. If you are wearing a baseball cap to replace a religious headcovering, you better be prepared to remove it in my presence. Chemo patients...most of the men that I have met with hair loss due to chemo have not been too concerned about wearing a scarf, and a baseball cap on a bald guy is an every day occurence. Women in scarves, we that is totally allowed...ask Miss Manners. But, again, a baseball cap better come off if you are interviewing with me. And yes, I have nixed hiring interviewees on their manners or lack of them. If they are so inconsiderate about something so easily handled, what will they do in a situation that calls for real diplomacy?

 

[Carl Keller]

Is it a big deal? Yes.

Golf, especially at that level comes with specific dress, etiquette and other rules.

Vijay should have dropped the putter and tipped his hat.

If he does not want to respect the rules and ettiquette of the sport, he should not be playing it, regardless of whether he can put the ball in the hole more consistently or not.

If he does it again, he should be reprimanded by the PGA.

Carl-

 

[Sam]

And we do love to sit in the judgement seat.

 

[Charmed]

Now, Vijay is in trouble

Is it a big deal? Yes.

Golf, especially at that level comes with specific dress, etiquette and other rules.

Vijay should have dropped the putter and tipped his hat.

If he does not want to respect the rules and ettiquette of the sport, he should not be playing it, regardless of whether he can put the ball in the hole more consistently or not.

If he does it again, he should be reprimanded by the PGA.

Carl-

Hi Carl:

So, it is a big deal after all! When I read the initial responses to this thread, I said, I can tell Vijay, no big deal. Now, yes Carl, I thought about Vijay dropping his putter and removing his hat, to shake hands. Now, it appears I have more to talk about after all, if I meet Vijay - before he gets reprimanded by the PGA and loses points that count towards his World Golf Rankings.

More seriously, I agree that we must all be sensitive to each other's cultures and mores. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Or, when in the Middle East, do as they do. Or, in Japan. Or, in the US and, yes, Canada! It is still a good idea.

 

[jaimezepeda]

No kiddin'! I am THE MOM every one of my daughter's friends has come to expect (dread?) etiquette lessons from.

When I was in junior high school my best friend's mother made sure I always addressed her as "ma'am." I never forgot that lesson. Even today I answer with "sir" or "ma'am" when addressed by others (specially if they are older than myself). I do get some funny looks from some but that has not stopped me from applying that lesson I learned as a teenager.

It is a matter of common courtesy.

Jaime

 

[Charmed]

Yes Jamie

When I was in junior high school my best friend's mother made sure I always addressed her as "ma'am." I never forgot that lesson. Even today I answer with "sir" or "ma'am" when addressed by others (specially if they are older than myself). I do get some funny looks from some but that has not stopped me from applying that lesson I learned as a teenager.

It is a matter of common courtesy.

Jaime

Yes Jamie. It is often the UNINTENTIONAL things that we do that really count - as I think it may be in Vijay Singh's case. It is always better to err on the side of COURTESY and be scrupulous about it. Yes, I still hold door's for the opposite sex and everyone older than I am - and little children too!

Charmed

 

[Carl Keller]

Sam, I am not judging anyone.

I am not an avid golfer and do not pretend to know all the rules of play and etiquette that applies, however if you come up through the ranks to a level of play that offers a tour on the PGA, you should be expected to follow the rules that apply. If it is accepted that one should take their hat off when shaking your opponents hand, you should do so, or be cautioned against it in the future.

I am an upcoming sailor and as such, there are certain rules and etiquette that you must follow. Some are for rules of safety, some are for competition, and others are for common respect that do not apply to other situations.

Should he lose points? No. But after being officially cautioned if it continues? Yes.