Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standards!

Sidney Vianna

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#1
ISO and IAF have come forward, VEHEMENTLY voicing their opposition against (accredited or otherwise) certification against ISO 26000, asking for cases of ISO 26000 misuse to be reported to the ISO Secretariat. I applaud them for doing that.

What puzzles me is the fact that certificates being issued against other non-certifiable standards (already reported here), such as ISO 10002, ISO 10004, ISO 31000, BS PAS99, etc...have no such reaction from the two entities. I wonder why, especially because such standards CLEARLY indicate they are not to be used for certification purposes.

Why the "double standard"? (pun intended)
 
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George Weiss

#2
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

Is it because ISO 26000 is like a religious endevor?
You never reach perfection, so your level of performance is always wanting?
Maybe similarly it would not be right to say you have reached the right level of responsibility.
WOW, a business model saying we should be responsible, and saying the sky is the limit.
Can BP join the 26000 club?
.
There was a recent Elsmar post about un-certified CBs in India issuing certifications.
This might be another item to run with.
 
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Paul Simpson

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#3
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

The word I hear is that there is already a groundswell of companies looking to impose 26000 on their supply chain and plenty of other suppliers looking to volunteer to get certified to get ahead of the game. They were / are being told by CBs that they can get certification as soon as the standard is available.

So the backlash is an attempt by the ABs to stem the tide - King Canute anyone?

I expect we will see a range of imaginative ways round the rules. :D
 

Sidney Vianna

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Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

The word I hear is that there is already a groundswell of companies looking to impose 26000 on their supply chain and plenty of other suppliers looking to volunteer to get certified to get ahead of the game. They were / are being told by CBs that they can get certification as soon as the standard is available.
Interesting. The standard has been out for a while, now. So, what is stopping the creative juices from flowing? :tg:

There should be a rule, though: if you are going to impose ISO 26000 onto your suppliers, you should do it yourself, first.
I expect we will see a range of imaginative ways round the rules.
The crux of the matter is: if CB's offer non-accredited certification to ISO 26000 (or any other standard, for that sake), by definition, it is outside of the scope of oversight of the accreditation bodies. So, how could the IAF member AB's impose sanctions onto CB's for non-accredited work? :confused:

In the USA, ANAB prohibited CB's from issuing attestations of conformity to ISO 17025, claiming that assessments against 17025 belong to the accreditation world and CB's can not perform accreditation work.

I suspect that it is just a matter of time until ISO caves in and develops a certifiable Social Responsibility standard. The revenue stream is just too large to be ignored.
 
V

vanputten

#5
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

Maybe this thread is another reason for the decline in certifications. How would the average ISO 9001 user ever know or understand this? Accredited, certifcation body, IAF, ANAB, how would they know? Why would they care?

Could the industry make it any more confusing and seeminly only privy to industry insiders?
 

Sidney Vianna

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#6
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

How would the average ISO 9001 user ever know or understand this?
By asking the right questions to appropriate people; educating oneself.
Why would they care?
So they are not preyed upon by being ignorant. Contrary to what some people believe, in this case, ignorance is not a bliss.

Not sure why you are injecting ISO 9001 users in this thread. This thread has nothing to do with certifiable management system standards and the run of the mill, vanilla accredited certification process.
 
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George Weiss

#7
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

Is it possible that a desire for wider acceptance, and lower entry cost, is desired before implementing the 26000 standard guidance certification or accreditation? Likely not.
.
An assortment of Social Responsibility 26000 series standards could be on the horizon. They might become regionally sensitive or specific. I can imagine an acceptable implementation for Saudi Arabia would be different than for China, or USA, or Russia. Demanding social conformity would be like pressing Burger King or the Koran on the entire world. Could ISO actually become an unwanted factor in dictating the social threads of entire countries through global business practices?
Is this a church and state issue? Better might be the separation of business and state affairs.
 
#8
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

There has already been company specific "requirements" on suppliers to meet "Responsible Supply Chain" initiatives like the EICC Code. It does not matter if ISO 26000 is made mandatory for the supplier or if it is certifiable. I agree with Sidney - let us not forget that each one of the "big customers" is also a supplier to someone else. So, those who require their suppliers to meet the requirements of ISO 26000 (or EICC Code etc.) should meet them first before asking the suppliers to conform to these requirements. Our experience shows that these requirements are not un-surmountable; we have faced them and met them.

With kind regards,

Ramakrishnan
 
M

machrk

#9
Re: Another ISO & IAF inconsistency? "Banning" certification against guidance standar

:tg:I believe that we are seeing elements of CSR - corporate social responsibility showing up in some supplier self assessment checklists - with or without iso 26000

however it is really difficult to set such a system as a compliance system with such a range of values across the globe on the different elements

in some ways it is like iso 9004 - an aspirational guide for business excellence and business sustainability - but not always possible to achieve at certification level

maybe over time there will be an evolution and increased global maturity towards corporate social responsibility - in the meantime let's take the little steps to start the journey

anyone ever heard of "boiling the frog" analogy ?
 
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