SBS - The Best Value in QMS software

Any Consequences If I Lose My Supplier Auditor Certification?

Izoyd

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hi all,

I took the AIAG RABQSA-Certifed ISO 9001 Lead Auditor Training with ISO/TS 16949 Supplier Auditor Certification course in 2007 and therefore received an AIAG ISO/TS Supplier Auditor Certification certificate for 1st- and 2nd- party assessments. Subsequently, my certification expires this year in 2010.

Basically, we have used this training/certification to qualify me as a Lead Internal Auditor for my company, top qualify me to train other internal auditors, and in the case that we may 2nd-party audit any of our suppliers.

As a cost savings, my company was thinking to not re-certify me now in 2010.

I am wondering if any of you are aware if there are any negative consequences if I do not renew my Supplier Auditor Certification?

As far as lead auditing goes, my interpretation is that since I've been trained, that should not change my status as a qualified trainer for other internal audtiors....so for me the unclear part regards 2nd-party auditing.

FYI, our customers include Ford and GM...so I am aware of the 2nd-party auditing rules. But I guess I'm just not clear whether it is OK to now lose my Supplier Auditor Certification.

I would appreciate any feedback from all of you!!

Thank you!!!
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#2
I might be damming myself but....
I do not know who decided that this is a time limited certificate. There is no requirement as far as I know for internal auditors to be re certified. I do not know if this certificate has any standing in fact.
This might be important if you are registered with RAB but apart from that they want more money.
I would expect some evidence of updating to 2009 version but that is not problematic.
 
D

DrM2u

#3
I might be damming myself but....
I do not know who decided that this is a time limited certificate. There is no requirement as far as I know for internal auditors to be re certified. I do not know if this certificate has any standing in fact.
This might be important if you are registered with RAB but apart from that they want more money.
I would expect some evidence of updating to 2009 version but that is not problematic.
I second Howard's statement. I am not aware of any TS requirements for internal auditor (or auditors performing supplier audits) to be certified. This must be another one of AIAG's attempts to monopolize a segment of the market. They must be losing TS 3rd party auditors left and right. I know they lost me a couple of years back because of their monopoly and stupid re-accreditation requests.

Anyway, the only requirement that I am aware of is for the internal auditor(s) to be qualified according to 8.2.2.5. However, this requirement was interpreted by many as having to attend a formal TS auditor course and some customers even request this from their suppliers. Formal training should also enable you to teach others on the requirements and how to conduct audits. Like Howard, I would suggest attending a formal 'upgrade' course to the new version of TS (minor changes from what I understand) so no one would question your qualifications.

Bottom line, the only potential implication of losing the 'validity' of the training certificate is if you are seeking employment or other work with another organization that might expect it. Let your organization decide how to qualify the internal and supplier auditors in line with clause 6.2.2.2. Hope this helps.
 
A

arios

#4
I belong to other industry sector, but when a similar situation happened to me I decided to pay my renewals on my own. The reason I did it is that my job requires it (yours probably not). Paying my renewals from my pocket has been an investment so I have no regrets.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#5
I second Howard's statement. I am not aware of any TS requirements for internal auditor (or auditors performing supplier audits) to be certified. This must be another one of AIAG's attempts to monopolize a segment of the market. They must be losing TS 3rd party auditors left and right. I know they lost me a couple of years back because of their monopoly and stupid re-accreditation requests.
In fact the underlined part is not the real story.
The 3rd party certification is by IATF through the local oversight offices and as such AIAG operate for IAOB (the US oversight body) other training providers can be seen IATF Sanctioned Auditor Training.
The training and recertification process are globally managed and the AIAG does not decide. This training requirement is part of the rules.
 
R

ralphsulser

#6
I know that at one time, around 2004, Visteon CSRs/Ford required suppliers to have an RAB Accrredited Lead Auditor, and that was for tier 1 suppliers. I was not aware of any requirements to audit our suppliers by a certified auditor.
 
J

JQuality

#7
I have included the Ford Customer Specific Requirements for internal auditors and trainers of internal auditors. I didn't include GM's requirements because the Ford requirements are the most stringent of the US OEM's. I hope this helps.

4.39​
Internal Quality Audits
(ISO/TS 16949 cl. 8.2.2)

The internal audits shall review all the organization's identified process (per 4.1a of
ISO/TS 16949). This review shall be conducted at least annually.​
Internal Auditor Qualifications​
Internal quality management system auditors shall be qualified per 4.39.1 or 4.39.2
below.​
4.39.1​
Be trained and evaluated in the following areas:

•​
The Technical Specification ISO/TS 16949

•​
Related core tools (e.g. APQP, SPC, MSA, FMEA, PPAP)

•​
Applicable customer-specific requirements, and

•​
The automotive process approach to auditing.
And, as part of the training, participates in practice sessions
equivalent to one audit day in:

•​
Case study audits, and/or

•​
Auditing role plays/simulations, and/or

•​
On-site audits.
Core tools and customer specifics can be taught by company or
industry recognized experts/specialists.


4.39.2​
Or, have conducted at least 5 internal ISO/TS 16949 internal audits
during the prior 24 months under the supervision of an auditor trained as
specified in 4.39.1 . The audits will need to have covered all
requirements of the technical specification and all processes directly
impacting Ford part quality at least once over the 5 or more audits.

Internal Auditor Trainer Qualifications​
4.39.3​
The training listed in 4.39.1 above shall be conducted by trainer(s) who
have themselves successfully met the requirements of 4.39.1 or 4.39.2.

4.39.4​
Process and Product audits may be conducted by appropriate process
specialists from the affected areas without full quality management

auditor training.
 
C

Citizen Kane

#8
Hi !

In our case, it was no need for the internal auditors to be recertified.True, some of them did this on their own money, but still, there was no problem with this and no issue rasised.
 
#9
Hi !

In our case, it was no need for the internal auditors to be recertified.True, some of them did this on their own money, but still, there was no problem with this and no issue rasised.
May we ask how you determined this? It helps to explain how you arrived at your decision (and your post).
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
Hi
I recently passed the TS16949 Supplier Audit Certification and it has an expiry date of 2013.
Raffy:cool:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Consequences of terminating a subcontractor re continuity of supply CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 0
S IFU on web page - Consequences if the most recent one is not uploaded EU Medical Device Regulations 3
J ISO 9001:2015 Clause10.2 Nonconformity and Corrective Action - Deal with Consequences ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
B Costs, Benefits, and Consequences of ISO 9001 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Q Open Medical Device Recall: Are there consequences? Other US Medical Device Regulations 1
D Consequences of Major Non-Conformances during a Registration Audit ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
AnaMariaVR2 Consequences of lost cargo in pharma vs other industries Pharmaceuticals (21 CFR Part 210, 21 CFR Part 211 and related Regulations) 0
M Consequences of not implementing Corrective Action IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
B Example of Production Process Change having Significant Consequences AS9100C 7.5.1.2 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
L CE Mark - but not really. What are consequences? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
D Consequences of letting the CE Certificate Expire CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 15
S Consequences of mixing Pb-free and Pb-containing components Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
D AS 9101 Rev D - 12 Months of Data and Consequences AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
S Medical Device placed on the market with no CE Mark - Consequences? CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 22
Wes Bucey A really DUMB Nigerian phishing letter! "FBI" (USA) Email promising dire consequences Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 9
S Consequences of Shipping product with label not following CE rules EU Medical Device Regulations 2
S What are the consequences of having an expired ISO 9001:2000 Certificate ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 11
Sidney Vianna A Standard that would enforce tree inspections - unintended consequences? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 37
A Ring Joint Gasket Defect Types and their Consequences Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 13
Z Consequences for Poor Performance based on a Monthly Scorecard - Actions? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 15
A Gage R&R Criteria - under 10%, %EV, %AV, %PV and Consequences of Bad GR&R. Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 11
D Scary stories - the REAL consequences of poor quality Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
B Consequences for repeat nonconformances - Carelessness, lack of focus Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
Wes Bucey Lean gone wrong - Unintended consequences of some misguided attempts at Lean Lean in Manufacturing and Service Industries 42
A Communicating to our employees: consequences to customer of non-conformity IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
C Consequences of Missing the Chrysler July 1st TS 16949 Deadline IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 31
M Moving to another location: Consequences for your Quality Manual Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 10
N Losing your ISO Certification if you Lose Your AS9100 Certification ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Marc Will Facebook lose 80% of its users by 2017? After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 12
Stijloor Best way for girls to lose weight.... Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 2
Y Identifying measurable processes: How not to lose the forest behind the trees? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Marc Time Warner Cable may Lose Viacom: MTV, Nickelodeon, Comedy Central MAY Go Dark After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 3
Marc Parents lose custody after naming girl 'Talula Does the Hula From Hawaii' World News 8
BradM How to Lose a Customer in 30 Minutes Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 14
Raffy TS 16949 Certificate - What are causes for which we can lose our certificate? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 22
A Only One Automotive Customer - If we lose that customer, what happens to our cert? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
C What if you lose your registration due to non-conformance? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
K Why does load cell supplier requires force verification General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
D Question and advice for a supplier self audit questionnaire ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
D Special IATF audit of sub-supplier IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
S IATF 16949 Supplier selection criteria 8.4.1.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
M Supplier approved list - Notified body, regulatory body Supply Chain Security Management Systems 4
N Making improvements in supplier relationship last? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 6
K Supplier Qualification for Engineering Consultant? Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 3
M Supplier evaluation Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 5
briteme4 ASL - AS9100 / Supplier Survey Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 3
A System for Supplier Documents Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 7
T IMDS submission without supplier's input? RoHS, REACH, ELV, IMDS and Restricted Substances 0
J Supplier not responding to PPAP request APQP and PPAP 5
D Supplier audit Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom