Any experience with ISO 9001 certification Kits?

[ChrissieO]

It occurs to me, that with the collective wisdom here, at the Cove, we could come up with our own....:mg:

:mg:God Forbid!!!!!!:mg:

We cannot agree on some of the major issues, i.e.

Quality Manuals "War & Peace standard based manuals v simple 2-4 page manuals in plain speak.

Process auditing v compliance auditing

Thank goodness I know you were joking errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I hope

Chrissie

 

[tomvehoski]

I may be a bit biased since I wrote and marketed one of these back in my consulting days. If you have no systems in place they can be useful. For example, if you have never done a corrective action, at least you are given a basic procedure, form and tracking list with some examples and guidance to get you started. If you already have a corrective action system but are suffering from poor root cause analysis, lack of closure, and the other common issues, it is not going to help.

Lets be honest - no consultant who walks into a company with no systems or documentation is going to start with a blank Word document and create a document layout and type every word of every procedure from scratch. They are going to take a known good format and procedure from their archive and customize it for the organization. Using a kit just shifts that step from the consultant to the user. If nothing else, it may stop the debate of using Times New Roman vs. Arial, document number in the footer vs header, etc. that I've seen consume too many hours of debate.

We actually tried marketing one as part of a group ISO course. Basically you would buy the kit and we would have monthly workshops in our office where we would assist with development. This let companies that couldn't afford my bill rate spread it out among four or five companies. There were also XX on-site consulting hours included. In the end we were never able to get enough companies on-board to make it work.

 

[Wes Bucey]

The whole idea of a "kit" is VERY seductive. A number of the professionals who visit regularly here at the Cove will let out a loud groan and most of them will also turn the air blue with profane and scatological references when they read this phrase:
"ISO registration in 40 days!"

a phrase coined by a really intelligent guy who also came up with a hilarious parody on ISO. The joke, of course, is the only organizations capable of getting registration in 40 days are those that didn't need the help of the "kit" in the first place because they already had a bulletproof quality management system.

As Stijloor comments above, a kit CAN be used as a starting point, BUT it takes a knowledgeable Consultant familiar with the Standard, with third party auditing AND with a good working knowledge of business practices and strategies to use the framework provided by a "kit" to result in a Quality Management System that is effective and sustainable by the management and staff of the client organization.

Like most consultants, I have literally dozens and dozens of horrible and pitiful examples where organizations have tried to use "kits" without oversight by someone really knowledgeable in best practices as displayed by successful organizations; a person who is further capable of helping the management and staff of a client organization understand and implement good practices and avoid pitfalls and trips up blind alleys.

Here's what a good kit delivers:

1. a clause-by-clause explanation of the Standard and examples of how such clauses are implemented in the real world
2. a Gap Analysis checklist to take a snapshot of the organization before and after the so-called implementation to determine how effectively the organization complies with the Standard at those different stages of the transformation chronology.
3. a checklist of how to interview registrars to select the one to be the third party registrar for one's organization.
4. a road map to conduct periodic evaluations [internal audits] of the Quality Management System to determine whether it continues to comply with the Standard.
5. a lot of background information and training exercises to develop skills throughout the organization in a couple of important processes (including, but not limited to, FMEA, root cause investigation, corrective and preventive action, etc.)

important!

It is important to make a distinction between a true consultant and a mere technical writer when selecting the consultant to help adapt a kit to become the organization's QMS.

(I discuss the difference in this thread - Consulting – Is it in YOUR Career Future?)

 

[Randy]

"ISO registration in 40 days!"

Yeah, ol' Marc had a good time with that one

 

[JaneB]

All the "kitjobs" I've seen are like someone going steady with a blow-up doll...It may give the appearance, but it just ain't the real thing.

Sometimes I do wonder about your life experiences, including what you get up to in your time away from the Cove, Randy.

 

[AndyN]

I recently purchased a "canned documentation system" to help a Client to "get out of the gate" very fast. They were under tremendous time pressure. It is a very small organization, and honestly, most of the package was exactly what they needed. I would not use a "one-size-fits-all" for all organizations....

Stijloor.

Sadly, such a situation is often rare. People who buy a 'kit' rarely want to (pay to) engage the service of a consultant to assist with its application and development - the two are often mutually exclusive!

 

[Randy]

Sometimes I do wonder about your life experiences, including what you get up to in your time away from the Cove, Randy.

Retired cop there Jane, with among other things specialized training in sex related crimes (courtesy of the FBI academy folks). And you see quite a bit on the street

 

[JaneB]

Sadly, such a situation is often rare. People who buy a 'kit' rarely want to (pay to) engage the service of a consultant to assist with its application and development - the two are often mutually exclusive!

Mostly true, though not always.

On occasion (as in the example given in this thread) a decent kit (stress decent see Wes's post who summarised what's needed pretty well) can be of use. For example, there are occasions when people cannot afford a consultant, eg, geographically remote areas.

NB: I have to declare a possible bias here, because I do sell a DIY kit. But I would never, ever hint let alone promise that would get anyone 'ISO in 40 days'. My opinion on that particular furphy (Australianism, meaning 'rumour/untrue tale') is best left unexpressed.