Anyone using the new ANSI/NCSL Z540.3-2006?

G

George Weiss

#11
Agilent is very proud of the fact that they are Z540.3 : 2006 Certified
The first in the Americas, or something like that.
Give the boys at Agilent a hand. They are doing it right!
There is some info at their website promoting their new capabilties, and why you should pay for this new level of certainty. Huaaaaaa !
This is not a plug for Agilent, but is a good thing !
This seems to be puting up another higher standard for the mom-n-pop commercial calibration facilities to climb up to.
 
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howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#12
I would say I have 4-5 other employees at my disposal to help, but I have not announced the ISO 17025:2005 "implementation team" yet. Is it possible to implement everything by yourself?
Like implementation of most systems, the requirements need to be incorporated throughout the business in everyone's processes. If you can coordinate the changes by yourself and gain acceptance by everyone, you may be successful. Usually though, the process owners need to be involved with the implementation so that they take ownership of the changes being implemented.
Finally, I am tasked with implementing ISO 17025:2005 and being A2LA Accredited in 9.5 weeks. Is it me, or is this impossible? To me, this is a brutally tight schedule of only 9.5 weeks, and allows absolutely no cushion room. That brings up another point: do my fellow covers think this is neigh on impossible, or did my boss really pull out a date of Thanksgiving 2010 and somehow choose a perfect date with plenty of cushion room? Let me know if that didn't make sense.
9.5 weeks seems extremely agressive. Generally at the time of the accreditation audit, the auditor(s) would expect to see 3-6 months of records showing that the system is in place and working. That gives you just a few days to implement and 3 months to let the system work. Pretty unrealistic...
 
G

George Weiss

#13
the boss will want solid proof of why his wishes are not met.
I suggest a gap analysis and time lines to point to an early spring arrival.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#14
the boss will want solid proof of why his wishes are not met.
Such as information from A2LA (or another accreditation body) stating their expectations at the time of the audit.

By the way, is the audit already scheduled? If it's not, then you may have a tough time scheduling the audit in that time frame anyway. Generally they're booking audits several months in advance, and won't be able to accomodate last-minute requests.
I suggest a gap analysis and time lines to point to an early spring arrival.
I agree that a gap analysis would be the best starting point. Once you have a list of things that need to be done, a reasonable timeframe will be easier to work out.
 
G

George Weiss

#15
A question to ask also is if becoming ISO17025 is initially to be, get there, or to be effective from the get-go. In other threads it was commented that a stripped down plan, without any other plan then to get through the door is fast. And maybe the bells an wistles could be added after the fact. That would be doing the job bad once, and the better later. In the business world of get-there-now, maybe this is the ugly reality. I would want boss aproval-nod for such a course. Thinking outside the best practice box offers that option. Success is measured in the view of the boss, in this case.
 
D

Drew G

#16
We just purchased the ANSI Z540.3-2006 book (US$ 117 for 11 pages:mg:).
We manufacture data loggers and provide calibration services. We are implementing ISO 17025 and I held our first implementation team meeting yesterday. I am reviewing Z540.3-2006 and I think it's funny how there is no normative reference. In the document, ISO 17025 is referred to as an "Informative" reference, and is only mentioned 3 times, in a very broad way too.


In all seriousness, is this just a document for the purpose of reading and telling yourself afterward: "I seem to feel better now that I have read that, however I'm not going to do anything because our current or proposed quality management system (i.e. ISO 9001:2008 or ISO 17025) is sufficient and we already have or plan (i.e. ISO Registrar; A2LA, ILAC) to be ISO 9000 registered, or ISO 17025 accredited???:notme:


Can anybody tell me why someone would want to implement procedures for any of the clauses in ANSI Z540.3-2006 if it is only a VOLUNTARY standard, and ISO 17025 implementation covers all aspects required for accreditation anyways? :confused:


:thanks:
 
G

George Weiss

#17
Europe elevated the calibration process to a point of reporting uncertainties & compliance with 17025. Before 17025, calibration facilities just reported results, and let the customer decide if the DUT was compliant to specification. In the USA the Z540.3 standard has now raised the bar to par with 17025, and adds the requirement of PFA. Per attached abstract. Agilent points out that the guard-banding is not a 17025 requirement. The USA Z540.3 plugs some 17025 process holes. To comply with Z540.3 a lab will have the added requirement of showing false pass risk analysis to achieve/maintain <2% to become certified. The want to be better is a metrology focus.
This link is to the Agilent discussion:
http://metrologyforum.tm.agilent.com/pdf/ncsli2009_dobbert.pdf
This link is to an NCSL discussion of Z540.3 subclause 5.3 differences/comparisons to 17025:
http://www.a2la.org/conclaves/conclave2009/minutes/Measurement%20Advisory%20Committee%20Summary%20-%20Attachment%201.pdf
 
E

elenhardt

#18
Thanks for this discussion. My company has been ISO 17025 accredited since 2004 and recently added ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994 and ANSI/NCSLI Z540.3-2006 for what my QA department calls "fun." We tackled guardbanding back in 2008... maybe because our A2LA ISO 17025 auditor was mistaken? Maybe because he was right? (Not sure, chasing down that horse right now.) Apparently it was easy for us to get accredited to these two z540 standards this past spring, but we're not sure what it means (for us or for our customers) outside of "the added requirement of showing false pass risk analysis to achieve/maintain <2% to become certified" as cited above. Any help?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#19
Thanks for this discussion. My company has been ISO 17025 accredited since 2004 and recently added ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994 and ANSI/NCSLI Z540.3-2006 for what my QA department calls "fun." We tackled guardbanding back in 2008... maybe because our A2LA ISO 17025 auditor was mistaken? Maybe because he was right? (Not sure, chasing down that horse right now.) Apparently it was easy for us to get accredited to these two z540 standards this past spring, but we're not sure what it means (for us or for our customers) outside of "the added requirement of showing false pass risk analysis to achieve/maintain <2% to become certified" as cited above. Any help?
Hello there!!:bigwave: Welcome to the Cove!!:agree1:

If I recall, the ANSI standards are calibration/metrology standards, not unlike 17025 in its nature. I guess I'm just confused a bit why they were brought into the picture. Were they implementing portions of the ANSI standards or something?
 
E

elenhardt

#20
You're asking the question I'd like to have answered. Why is this valuable to our customers? As a calibration laboratory working with clients who sometimes have very tight tolerances, I can see how the z540.3 helps give them (and us) peace of mind. What else does it do?
 
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