Anyone using the new ANSI/NCSL Z540.3-2006?

G

George Weiss

#21
Short answer: The calibration lab has fewer false rejects, and everything is PASS/FAIL, no unknowns.
Long answer: ISO-17025:2005 is a European plan which was once report the calibration, and let the customer decide if the DUT is OK. Z540.3 is a process where the calibration facility can agree with the customer, to an acceptable false pass tolerance. The <2% has been put forth as a model to follow. Full guard banding causes a false reject, which could be viewed to high for some customers. Z540.3 allows for a course for guard banding. Actually there are several defined courses in use. It clearly breaks away from the notion of TL=SL-Uc, where Test Limit, Spec Limit and combined Uncertainties are known. Z430.3 puts forth the idea of all tests are PASS/FAIL, and no more PASS,PASS*,FAIL*,FAIL.
 
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D

dv8shane

#22
Europe elevated the calibration process to a point of reporting uncertainties & compliance with 17025. Before 17025, calibration facilities just reported results, and let the customer decide if the DUT was compliant to specification. In the USA the Z540.3 standard has now raised the bar to par with 17025, and adds the requirement of PFA. Per attached abstract. Agilent points out that the guard-banding is not a 17025 requirement. The USA Z540.3 plugs some 17025 process holes. To comply with Z540.3 a lab will have the added requirement of showing false pass risk analysis to achieve/maintain <2% to become certified. The want to be better is a metrology focus.
This link is to the Agilent discussion:
http://metrologyforum.tm.agilent.com/pdf/ncsli2009_dobbert.pdf
This link is to an NCSL discussion of Z540.3 subclause 5.3 differences/comparisons to 17025:
http://www.a2la.org/conclaves/conclave2009/minutes/Measurement%20Advisory%20Committee%20Summary%20-%20Attachment%201.pdf
I just read the NCSLI paper and discovered that traceability must be through NIST to the S.I., "Z540.3 additionally requires this be through the US NMI, the NIST" page 22 a lot of my assets are done by the USAF PSL but some are actually done at the NRC or their Type 1 accredited labs. I think this is very unusual bordering on protectionism.
 
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G

George Weiss

#23
It might be a left-over from the original Z540.1 idea. This was the first comercialization of the 45662A MIL STD. This was in the days of us and the other guys, being the "REDs".
OMG those darn "REDs". :mad:
NIST is the American Standard source.
Is it possible that the American SI standards are better than the European SI standards?:topic::lmao:
 
D

dv8shane

#24
"Z540.3 additionally requires this be through the US NMI, the NIST"

Now that I have discovered this I am going to bring it up with the Canadian government. (you know those reds to the north). I had been working to be Z540-3 compliant as a competitive advantage and now it appears my time was wasted because of protectionist measures.
 
G

George Weiss

#25
Maybe a Z540.3 exception/ammendment could be introduced. "Z540.3CA" I am not sure how many Certification Bodies are available for Z540.3 now. Until recently it was A2LA only, I understand from an outdated document. So much for fair trade between US, CA, and MX.
Maybe Z540.3 compliance @ k2 coverage 95%.
Less the NIST part. :sarcasm: :lmao:
The non-USA SI source situation can't be hopeless. The people who write these standards would have to be in the dark ages if it was set fourth that an American SI is better than a French SI. Or better yet, that French SIs are completely invalid. OMG, I can already hear the frogs croaking.
I wonder if there is a Canadian or European Certification person with an informed answer for this ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
 
V

vtburdet

#26
Charles, I have been readthis thread and I need to get a copy of the latest revision to this standard and wonderd were you purchased your copy? We have the Z540A-1 revision and need the .3 - 2006
Regards,
VTBurdet
 

dgriffith

Quite Involved in Discussions
#28
The dot3, sect. 5.3.3.2 Measurement Traceability specifically allows NMI's other than the NIST under certain conditions in 5.3.3.2, a) and b), and also allows for consensus standards where there is no NMI.

dot3 haters . . . :lmao:
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#29
dgriffith is correct. Now, to find the list of National Measurement Institutes (NMIs) that will be acceptable to any accrediting body, one needs to refer to the BIPM/CIPM site. CIPM is where the scope of recognition are maintained, the link is clear on the BIPM site, as that is the MRA.

www.bipm.org

Hope this helps.
 
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