API Spec Q1 - How to define Management Representative competency for QMS

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tongxiaozhi

Involved In Discussions
#2
It seems that there is no requirement for management respresentative in IATF16949. if the organization intend to keep the role, it is up to the organization to define the competency, there is no specific rules for it. In my opinion, the requirements should at least be higher than internal auditor.
 

JoshuaFroud

Involved In Discussions
#3
Hi Sachin Gupta, welcome to the Cove.

Which management system are you currently working with?

For us we have a statement in our quality manual that states the role and responsibility of the Management Rep. On file is also a letter of appointment that covers who the management rep is and reiterates their roles and responsibilities. With those two things in place we have never had an issue.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Sachin Gupta,

Good question.

When defining the competencies required of any role we have to start with authorities and responsibilities before can specify the required abilities, skills and knowledge.

What are the authorities delegated to your management rep? And what are your MR's responsibilities?

Knowing these we can then advise on the abilities, skills and knowledge necessary for the MR's competence.

John
 

SACHIN GUPTA

Starting to get Involved
#5
Thanks for suggestion ,
As we have a NC , for MR is not trained & Knowledge enough to maintain QMS as per our Standard . How we can close this NC . If we show about MR competency that it is better. to close it
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
You’ve not answered my question regarding your MR’s authorities and responsibilities. But it may include advising the CEO on any overdue improvements to the organization and its business management system.

If you examine your recruiting and training process it’ll show that your managers first define what each recruit must be able to do after they are trained. What must be their essential attributes? Naturally you don’t want to waste money on training a person who is never likely to be competent.

So, did this process result in an MR (System Manager) with the necessary attributes to become capable after training? For example, see ISO 19011 for the recommended attributes of a person selected for auditor training (not a bad place to start).

In other words the root causes of your nonconformity may be in that process of recruiting and training.

Ultimately, beyond being an excellent system and process auditor (or facilitator of effective auditing) the MR must also earn and keep the respect of the chief executive to be delegated some of the CEO’s authority. That may mean sharing a deep understanding of the way your organizational business system works in fulfilling the CEO’s mission.

John
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Here are the auditor recruit attributes recommended by ISO 19011:
  • ethical
    fair, truthful, sincere, honest, and discreet
  • open-minded
    willing to consider alternative ideas or points of view
  • diplomatic
    tactful in dealing with people
  • observant
    actively observing physical surroundings and activities
  • perceptive
    aware of and able to understand situations
  • versatile
    able to readily adapt to different situations
  • tenacious
    persistent and focused on achieving objectives
  • decisive
    able to reach timely conclusions based on logical reasoning and analysis
  • self-reliant
    able to act and function independently while interacting effectively with others
  • acting with fortitude
    able to act responsibly and ethically, even though these actions may not always be popular and may sometimes result in disagreement or confrontation
  • open to improvement
    willing to learn from situations, and striving for better audit results
  • culturally sensitive
    observant and respectful to the culture of the auditee
  • collaborative
    effectively interact with others, including team members and auditee personnel
Some of these may be learned but many cannot.

John
 

Jean_B

Trusted Information Resource
#8
Thanks for suggestion ,
As we have a NC , for MR is not trained & Knowledge enough to maintain QMS as per our Standard . How we can close this NC . If we show about MR competency that it is better. to close it
As an auditor (likely external) has stated this, he needs to have based this on its evidence. In reviewing the evidence for the non-conformity you should be able to determine which areas he deemed to be inadequate.
Now I say should, as "MR is not trained & knowledgeable enough to maintain a QMS as per our standard" should never be a non-conformity. It is not actionable. Perhaps evidence could not be shown for competence in certain responsibilities, perhaps he was not able to explain the QMS or transfer awareness of it to other people. Perhaps there is an issue with the manager being from a different industry than automotive, thus misunderstanding or wrongly applying some concepts. Or something else.
 

Mikey324

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
Could you share the auditors full statement of nonconformance, and the requirement the finding was based on? I think that would be helpful, as there are many great minds here that are very helpful (myself not included...)
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Thanks for suggestion ,
As we have a NC , for MR is not trained & Knowledge enough to maintain QMS as per our Standard . How we can close this NC . If we show about MR competency that it is better. to close it
Is this an external (2nd or 3rd Party) or an internal NC?

Neither ISO or IATF requires a MR that I am aware of.
 
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