Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment

[Chriso]

We make ground support equipment for the aircraft industry.

Is there a case that can be made to one of our customers that is requesting AS9100 to be implemented (at least until we are ready to upgrade to AS9100 from ISO 9001:2000) that since our products are "ground support" AS9100 does not truly apply?

Any and all help with this problem is appreciated.

 

[BadgerMan]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Ground Support Equipment...

I do not believe that the AS9100 standard states that the organization’s products must be airborne in order for the standard to be applicable to their operation. If AS9100 compliance is a customer requirement then it is a valid requirement regardless of the type of product or service you are providing or its end use. Of course, you can always take exception to the requirement but you may lose out to one of your competitors who is willing to comply.

Although I do not know what type of “ground support equipment” you provide, my feeling is that some of that "stuff" is pretty important and can have an (adverse) impact on flight safety.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Ground Support Equipment...

We make ground support equipment for the aircraft industry.

Is there a case that can be made to one of our customers that is requesting AS9100 to be implemented (at least until we are ready to upgrade to AS9100 from ISO 9001:2000) that since our products are "ground support" AS9100 does not truly apply?

Any and all help with this problem is appreciated.

It does NOT make sense for your system to comply with AS9100. The additional requirements of AS9100, compared to ISO 9001 are primarily intended for suppliers of flight hardware. If you try to "artificially" impose AS9100 requirements on to your operation, you might end up with:

• a bunch of (AS9100 adders) N/A's in your system
• additional costs with no benefit to compensate
• an overly strict system that is not perceived by management and workforce as meaningful, thus it will not be sustained.

I hope you can reason with your customer and they are educated enough to understand. The problem typically happens because these mandates come from their procurement function, and buyers are not allowed to waive or provide dispensations. For them, it is easy to say NO. As a recourse, you can always play the renegotiation card. Since they are imposing new requirements onto you, you can go back and state that additional costs will be created and you will have to increase your prices. THAT gets their attention.

 

[Chriso]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

Thank you Sidney and BadgerMan.

Actually our Registrar for ISO which also does AS certifications does not believe it applies. Although in the "forward" section of AS9100 it seems to imply it is for "use at all levels of the supply chain".

Is there any thing written down somewhere that states AS9100 is not intended for companies that produce "non-flight hardware" as you say Sidney?

 

[BadgerMan]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

I know that it applies in our case, both for airborne hardware and software as well as non-airborne hardware and software such as test sets and such. We build some test sets for our own use as well for use by our OEM customers and our service centers. These items are as critical to flight safety as are our avionics products. Incidentally, this “product” is also impacted by regulatory impositions such as FAA regulations and RTCA document requirements too, similar to the actual airborne product.

That is why I say that it is difficult to make a judgment regarding applicability without knowing more about your product. I am not aware of any language regarding the standard's non-applicability to non-airborne hardware for the reasons I have just noted.

If your registrar believes that it does not apply to your operation, I would use that as justification for exception when responding to your customer's RFP.

 

[al40]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

We make ground support equipment for the aircraft industry.

Is there a case that can be made to one of our customers that is requesting AS9100 to be implemented (at least until we are ready to upgrade to AS9100 from ISO 9001:2000) that since our products are "ground support" AS9100 does not truly apply?

Any and all help with this problem is appreciated.

I feel your pain, my company is providing support equipment to a major OEM and they called out AS9100, AS9102, and AS9103 requirements in their contract. After many hours of discussion we did convince them that AS9100 was not required, but they would not waver from the AS9102 and AS9103 (Their only buying 20 units), so we were stuck with a take or leave it option.

Best of luck,


Al

 

[Chriso]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

Thanks Al, would you be able to elaborate on some of the arguments that you used to convince your customer it was not necessary?

 

[lrsiyer]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

Chriso,
Kindly think of your business. It may not be required as per AS standards. But you know AS is customer requirement. One of your competitor may be complying and you may lose a customer. More over if you are complied with ISO 9001:2000 only additional requirements need to be focused.

Shankar.

 

[Chriso]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

Chriso,
Kindly think of your business. It may not be required as per AS standards. But you know AS is customer requirement. One of your competitor may be complying and you may lose a customer. More over if you are complied with ISO 9001:2000 only additional requirements need to be focused.

Shankar.

Thank you Shankar. I agree with you. The problem is we are currently not ready to focus on implementing the 80-100 additional requirments of AS at this time. Still hoping to find a good arguement on how we could keep the business but only maintain ISO 9001:2000 for the time being.

 

[al40]

Re: Applicability of AS9100 to Aircraft Ground Support Equipment...

Thanks Al, would you be able to elaborate on some of the arguments that you used to convince your customer it was not necessary?

Chriso,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I'm not sure of your situation, but we just pulled the OEM's own quality requirements that stated that theses units were only going to be used as engineering units and since they were not planning on buying anything further that it was not cost efficent for us to implement AS9100, we are however AS9100 compliant and ISO 9001 certified.

So after lots of emails, I invited their quality folks up to our facility for a sit down to dicuss the quality requirements after reviewing everything with them they agreed that it didn't make any sense to flow these types of requirements down for test units since no further production units would be ordered by them.


Regards,

al40