Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

#1
Do the requirements of 8.5 apply in the following scenario...

An engineering company designs industrial process systems, procures components, and has the components drop-shipped to the field construction sites. At this point, the contractors (customers) take possession of the components. The contractors build the systems with the components, drawings, specifications, etc. The engineering company then sends field engineers to start-up the systems and conduct training.

So, the processes (4.4) are: proposal (8.2), design (8.3), procurement (8.4), start-up (8.6). No 8.5?

Any input would be appreciated - Thanks!
 

John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#2
ctroll,

Engineering companies provide a service and produce and deliver design information.

So clause 8.5 definitely applies to them.

Analyze what your company actually does to turn the needs of your clients into cash and you’ll see that most if not all clauses apply.

Start not with the standard but with your organization and how it interacts with customers and suppliers to determine and satisfy customer needs.

You’ll probably find that your company is in the production business as it adds value to data and information to produce ontime, conforming specifications and drawings in various forms as much needed deliverables.

John
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#3
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for most folks to simply write the procedures saying "We don't really do this but this is the closest we come" rather than to keep fighting the fight of exemptions.

It takes so much to exclude certain points. Wouldn't it just be easier (and accomplish the same thing) to dodge the exclusion fight and just comply in the normal course of business...?
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Engineering companies provide a service
As John said, 8.5 is about service provision, if you are not a manufacturer. 8.5 can never be deemed non applicable, unless the organization does not have a deliverable, tangible or otherwise; and, without a deliverable, they don't exist.
 
#5
As I was sketching out the processes, I was also thinking about which sections apply to each process and was struggling a bit with the sub-sections of 8.5.

I definitely appreciate the feedback and I understand what you all are saying. It gives me more to think about.

Thanks!
 

John Broomfield

Fully retired...
Trusted
#6
As John said, 8.5 is about service provision, if you are not a manufacturer. 8.5 can never be deemed non applicable, unless the organization does not have a deliverable, tangible or otherwise; and, without a deliverable, they don't exist.
Sidney,

In my experience all organizations provide a service and some include products with their service.

This includes those organizations that provide manufacturing services.

Organizations that take their service seriously can differentiate themselves especially in a tough market where price seems to count for everything.

This can seem a bit extreme where organizations are used to excluding their service design processes from certification.

John
 

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