Approval of Supplier with ISO 9001 (Automotive)

Booker

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hello,
I hope that I have simple question with straight forward answer.

We are automotive company and we need to release on of our supplier which has "only" ISO 9001.

Can someone recommend overall approach how to release this supplier?

I believe that conducting of process audit according VDA 6.3 is meaningless.

Thank you for any hint!
 
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Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hello,
I hope that I have simple question with straight forward answer.

We are automotive company and we need to release on of our supplier which has "only" ISO 9001.

Can someone recommend overall approach how to release this supplier?

I believe that conducting of process audit according VDA 6.3 is meaningless.

Thank you for any hint!
Well, I am not a Automotive Specialist, but I would guess that if your supplier is registered to ISO9001 it should be sufficient. Any added requirements for the Automotive side could be flown down via the Purchase Order (PPAP and such).

Just my opinion.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#3
Hello,
I hope that I have simple question with straight forward answer.

We are automotive company and we need to release on of our supplier which has "only" ISO 9001.

Can someone recommend overall approach how to release this supplier?

I believe that conducting of process audit according VDA 6.3 is meaningless.

Thank you for any hint!
Is your organization certified to an automotive QMS standard such as IATF 16949? If so, you should refer to that standard and any customer-specific requirements documents to see if additional requirements for supplier qualification exist. For example, IATF 16949 requires:
The organization shall require their suppliers of automotive products and services to develop, implement, and improve a quality management system certified to ISO 9001, unless otherwise authorized by the customer [e.g., item a) below], with the ultimate objective of becoming certified to the Automotive QMS Standards. Unless otherwise specified by the customer, the following sequence should be applied to achieve this requirement.
a) compliance to ISO 9001 through second-party audits;
b) certification to ISO 9001 through third-party audits; unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the organization shall demonstrate conformity to ISO 9001 by maintaining a third-party certification issued by a certification body bearing the accreditation mark of a recognized IAF MLA (Internal Accreditation Forum Multilateral Recognition Arrangement) member and where the accreditation body's main scope includes management system certification to ISO 9001/IEC 17021;
c) certification to ISO 9001 with compliance to other customer-defined QMS requirements (such as Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sup-Tier Suppliers [MAQMSR] or equivalent) through second-party audits;
d) certification to ISO 9001 with compliance to IATF 16949 through second-party audits;
e) certification to 16949 through third-party audits (valid third-party certification of the supplier to IATF 16949 by an IATF 16949-recognized certification body).
 
#4
Thank you 'howste' for the right passage from IATF-16949.

As a step by step transition, IATF provides in point c):
c) certification to ISO 9001 with compliance to other customer-defined QMS requirements (such as Minimum Automotive Quality Management System Requirements for Sup-Tier Suppliers [MAQMSR] or equivalent) through second-party audits;

Now the company I work for has a bunch of ISO 9001 suppliers but we do not have much resources to perform 2nd party audits. Can we ask the suppliers to have 3rd party audits done for compliance to the MAQMSR? Are the certifying bodies who certify companies to ISO-9001 and IATF-16949 like TÜV-Sud also perform audits to check complaince to MAQMSR? Since I do not find such an audit in their websites.
:thanx:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
Can we ask the suppliers to have 3rd party audits done for compliance to the MAQMSR? Are the certifying bodies who certify companies to ISO-9001 and IATF-16949 like TÜV-Sud also perform audits to check compliance to MAQMSR?
You would have no control over the competence level of the 3rd party auditor and his/her knowledge of MAQMSR, and, thus, no control over the effectiveness of such audits.

You can hire an auditing agency/auditor to perform such second party audits on your behalf and ensure the auditors performing this focused audit are qualified for the task.

Welcome to The Cove.
 
#6
Thanks Sidney Vianna you for the info.
I learnt that accredited certifying agencies do not certify a company to 'MAQMSR' but only check compliance during certification audit for ISO-9001. How do they then confirm the compliance? In a separate writing? Or as an annex to the ISO-9001 certification? This is when we require our suppliers to arrange the audits themselves.
:thanx:
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#7
You are attempting to create a no-cost "solution" for you, but, as I said, it would NOT satisfy the letter of nor the intent of the IATF 16949 document for supplier development, for reasons that I explained in my previous post.

So, you are running the risk of having the situation identified by your IATF auditor and written up.

Good luck.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#8
FWIW, been there, done that (from the supplier end).

Either find a way to satisfy your auditor and CB to accept only ISO9001, or put in the expense req. to pay for the cost your supplier "should" pass on to you for the expense of certifying to IATF16949.

If you need the supplier, you (as the automotive customer) should be willing to pay for your supplier's cert and all support activities.

No wonder why american cars cost so much...my next car will be a Honda...better and cheaper...
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#9
FWIW, been there, done that (from the supplier end).

Either find a way to satisfy your auditor and CB to accept only ISO9001, or put in the expense req. to pay for the cost your supplier "should" pass on to you for the expense of certifying to IATF16949.

If you need the supplier, you (as the automotive customer) should be willing to pay for your supplier's cert and all support activities.

No wonder why american cars cost so much...my next car will be a Honda...better and cheaper...
Actually I would rather pay my customer to send one of their internal guys to audit us and drop third party altogether. I think the more interaction between vendors and customers is good.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#10
You would have no control over the competence level of the 3rd party auditor and his/her knowledge of MAQMSR, and, thus, no control over the effectiveness of such audits.

You can hire an auditing agency/auditor to perform such second party audits on your behalf and ensure the auditors performing this focused audit are qualified for the task.

Welcome to The Cove.
You can also ask the supplier to pay for the equivalent of 2nd party audits as part of their development. You don’t necessarily have to pay for it or use your personal staff. Also, keep in mind, that long list of recommended steps does not have a set deadline.... it is a developmental process over time, to improve a sub-supplier internal system and performance.... implicit in that list is that it will take time to move supply chain toward to “ultimate objective.” It would take years for the certification bodies to even certify that many companies.
 
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