Architect's Client Doesn't Know What He Wants - Contract Review Process

P

potdar

#1
In the service sector one ends up in crazy situations, totaly different than what one is used to in manufacturing.

A friend, an architect wants to go in for ISO 9001. People come and tell him, "Look I got a plot here. Build me something good." Simple everyday situation till he tried to design a contract review process.

I have tried to develop something useful for him. Possibly, with help from all of you I can give him something better.

Any ideas?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Architect Client Doesn't Know What He Wants - Contract Review?

In the service sector one ends up in crazy situations, totaly different than what one is used to in manufacturing.

A friend, an architect wants to go in for ISO 9001. People come and tell him, "Look I got a plot here. Build me something good." Simple everyday situation till he tried to design a contract review process.

I have tried to develop something useful for him. Possibly, with help from all of you I can give him something better.

Any ideas?
Make sure that both parties agree on what "good" means.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Architect Client Doesn't Know What He Wants - Contract Review?

In the service sector one ends up in crazy situations, totaly different than what one is used to in manufacturing.

A friend, an architect wants to go in for ISO 9001. People come and tell him, "Look I got a plot here. Build me something good." Simple everyday situation till he tried to design a contract review process.

I have tried to develop something useful for him. Possibly, with help from all of you I can give him something better.

Any ideas?
Hi Potdar,

I got remembered of a story of blindfolded men trying to figure out which animal are they feeling ? One says a tiger, another a big cat and so on ...:)

I would think that this type of a scenario is very good as the architect can come up with his own ingenuity and experience. For the architect, he can develop his own checklist to get the customer requirements particularly with respect to number of storeys, no of rooms, etc. He can also suggest good layout based on the Feng Shui or the Indian concept "Vaastu". He can offer multiple solutions and once the plan is decided, he can firm it up and get concurrence from the Customer.

This would be his Customer specifications. :D
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Architect Client Doesn't Know What He Wants - Contract Review?

well, usually an architect will ask a client what they want in terms of:
what are the things that your new home must have
what are the things that you really want
what are the things that it would be nice to have if it fits in the budget
and maybe even a couple of ideas on what would you like if you could have anything in the world in you new home.
what is the budget we have to work with

Then, your review is can we provide the necessities and the clients needs within the allotted budget while either including or providing some sort of alternative to the other luxury or "wish list" items.

One thing that needs to be considered in contract review for an architect, is "can the architect and the client work together"? Sometimes they cannot. (I add this because I worked for an architect part time when I was in school. That was my actually my original choice of career until I got sidetracked by lack of money. lol) There were clients that we just could not do the job they wanted (because it was physically impossible) or that had such different viewpoints that we knew they would never be happy with the work we did.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#5
Architectural works are like pieces of art. Do you need ISO for these kind of things?

Even for mass housing, where a single design is repeated many times, architects are normally chosen based on their proposals, reputation (An architects reputation enhance the value of property), experience etc. I just checked the website of Norman Foster & associates, the architect for the New World Trade Centre - certainly no indication of ISO certification but an impressive list of current and pass projects.

Be careful, ISO is not for everything.

Regards.
 
P

potdar

#6
Architectural works are like pieces of art. Do you need ISO for these kind of things?

Be careful, ISO is not for everything.

Regards.
Thanks all for your comments so far. I will just put in a word for "why ISO". Just note my identification. It goes "For Improvement".

The ideal situation for an architect's office was identified as the seniors doing the creative work and the juniors doing the donkey work. While doing this, the juniors get a chance to learn and grow, the seniors get a chance to spend time being creative.

None of this was happening. The seniors were doing checking and the juniors were doing rework. Frustration, attrition was high. There was hardly any scope or time for being creative.

Bringing in ISO systems in spirit has drastically improved the situation. And we can measure it.

But my question remains. What about contract review?
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
But my question remains. What about contract review?
The procedure should address the steps that are involved in determining the requirements, the needs, and the capabilities.

Since ISO9001:2000 does not require a "Contract Review" procedure than make a simple flow chart on the process, in my opinion.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
But my question remains. What about contract review?
Contract review is a process. just think Bob the Builder

Can we build it?
Yes we can!

As soon as you cannot meet one of the client's requirements, review done, contract not agreed to, or contract requirements need to change.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#9
FWIW:
I counsel folks to avoid "reinventing the wheel." Thus, why not consider starting with a mere $10 to purchase the American Institute of Architects contract form (http://www.aiachicago.org/resources_for_architects/order_docs_nonmember.asp) With this format, you can approach a local lawyer to adapt to local laws and regulations.
The documents produced by the AIA are the most widely used standard form contracts in the construction industry. They facilitate communication among all the parties involved in construction, which makes it easier to produce a high quality project in a timely and economical fashion.
AIA documents are fair.
AIA contracts and forms are consensus documents that reflect advice from practicing architects, contractors, engineers as well as owners, surety bond producers, issuers and attorneys. AIA documents balance the interest of all the parties, so not one interest, including that of the architect, is unfairly presented.
AIA documents reflect industry practices, not theory.
Where practices are inconsistent or no guidelines for practices exist, the AIA documents provide a consensus-based model for practitioners to follow.
AIA documents reflect changing construction practices and technology.
AIA documents are revised regularly to accommodate changes in professional and industry practices, insurance and technology.
AIA documents reflect the law.
AIA documents are revised and updated to incorporate changes resulting from court interpretations and rulings, legal precedent, and nuances.
AIA documents are flexible.
AIA documents can be easily modified to accommodate individual project demands. Such changes are easily distinguished from the original, printed language.
AIA documents are easy to interpret.
AIA documents use the commong meaning of words and phrases. Industry and legal jargon is avoided whenever possible.
Document Summary

The AIA Documents Synopses is a quick reference for determining the appropriate uses for each of the contracts administrative forms published by the American Institute of Architects. That purpose naturally presumes independent judgment on the reader’s part, as well as advice of counsel. This introduction is intended to provide an overview for readers who are not yet familiar with the AIA documents.
There are over 80 AIA contracts and administrative forms in print today. The ancestor of all of these was the Uniform Contract, an owner-contractor agreement, first published in 1888. This was followed, in 1911, by AIA’s first standardized general conditions for construction. The 1997 edition of AIA Document A201 is the fifteenth edition of those general conditions.
Many Practices common in the construction industry today became established through their inclusion in AIA’s general conditions and its other standardized documents. Arbitration, the one-year correction period, and the architect’s role in deciding disputes are just three of these. And while the AIA documents have had a profound influence on the industry, the influence also runs the other way. The AIA regularly revises its documents to take into account recent developments in the construction industry and the law. New standardized documents for design/build and for different types of construction management have been published in recent years, and documents for international practice are now under consideration.
Because the AIA documents are frequently updated, users should consult an AIA component chapter or obtain a current copy of the AIA Contract Documents Price List to determine the current editions.
The documents’ relationship to the industry influencing it, and in turn being influenced by it-is paralleled by their relationship to the law. The AIA documents are intended for nationwide use, and are not drafted to conform to the law of any one state. With that caveat, however, AIA contract documents provide a solid basis of contract provisions that are enforceable under the law existing at the time of publication. Case law on contracts for design and construction has for the past century been based largely on the language of AIA standardized documents and contracts derived from them. These court cases are listed in The American Institute of Architects Legal Citator. Recent cases are summarized, and all cases are keyed to the specific provisions in the AIA documents to which they relate.
Sample copies of the entire set of AIA standard forms of agreement and related documents are contained in The Architect’s Handbook of Professional Practice and companion CD.
Disclaimer: My first wife was a registered architect and AIA member, working for Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, designers of Sears Tower, and much of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#10
Exactly Wes. In this part of the world, we follow the British practice - RIBA or the localized version. Architecture and to a certain extend, engineering has practices different from others. Apart from what Wes mentioned, there is also a scale of fees mandated by the professional body.

A young architect starting out on his own usually have no choice. He grabs everything and agrees to anything offered. Hopefully, he create a name for himself along the way. Then, he can practically name his price and pick and choose clients. Contract review???

Regards.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Can a Contract Manufacturer "release" product on behalf of client to the market? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 4
T Client Communication - SaaMD company Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
S Moving from client-server to cloud-based, is that a new submission? Medical Information Technology, Medical Software and Health Informatics 3
J Medical Device Registration in Argentina - Client asks us to provide “European FSC” Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 4
S Client Audit Question - Entitled to see all of our documents in an audit? General Auditing Discussions 4
S Contract Packager or Repackager? And can client assume responsibility? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 0
M Auditing processes followed by employees placed on client's site Internal Auditing 4
D Definition Client - How does the government define their clients? Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 1
N Any comment, if a supplier raise an NCR to the Client? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 5
Q Drawings from Client - ISO 9001:2008 Clause 4.2.3 or 7.5.4? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
A Best Method of Auditing an Installation Process at a client job-site ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Howard Atkins Rules 4th Edition Areas of Impact for Client Consideration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
Ajit Basrur Credit Suisse - Advertising Client Campaign Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 1
C OHSAS 18001 and a site visit - All our work is on client sites Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 4
N Client Request for Reference Equipment Calibration Certificate General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
C ISO 13485 - Client Specific Validation and CE Marking CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 3
L Client's Order Dock Inspection before Shipping Manufacturing and Related Processes 5
L ISO9001:2008 - Applicable clause for sending incompetent crew to client Service Industry Specific Topics 7
L Client that refuses to help - How to handle ? Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 5
I When the client seems to get involved in functions of our organization Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 6
S Should Client Controlled Procedures be Controlled Internally by us as well? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
T Medical Device Software Verification & Validation for Client Specific Configurations Design and Development of Products and Processes 2
Q Managing Internal and Client Complaints ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Q Sales, different products/path to client, should be pictured each in Process Maps? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
B QCP (Quality Control Plan) from client with EN 10204 type 3.1 Material Certificates Various Other Specifications, Standards, and related Requirements 2
C Client Order Data Error Tracking ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
Q How to Audit the Client Quality System - Product Failure caused by no Maintenance ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
Q Maintenance Schedule with Client in my Procedures? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
Q Content and Details of a Client (Customer) Claim Procedure ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
A Client requires to witness an Internal Audit of our Sub-Contractor Internal Auditing 4
D How to implement Control of Employee Access to Client Data IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 2
D Classification of Client (Customer) Complaints ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
C CB Client Contract Agreement - Identifying nonconformances - AS9100 Registrars and Notified Bodies 7
I In ISO 9001:2008 - Can we show an Internal Department as our Client/Customer ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
V ISO 9001 Consultant + Welding Inspector for Same Client - Conflict of interest? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Howard Atkins # Rules 3rd Edition Areas of Impact for Client Consideration IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
L Client asking for us to perform VDA 275 - VDA questions VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 1
Sidney Vianna ANAB Accreditation Council Drafts Client Bill of Rights ASQ, ANAB, UKAS, IAF, IRCA, Exemplar Global and Related Organizations 2
F Document Control of client-specific instructions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
SteelMaiden Scrap Trader Kidnapped? UK scrap trader kidnapped by Chinese client World News 5
S Construction Projects - Client & contractor - System compatibility issues Quality Manager and Management Related Issues 4
M Service Level Agreement between Software Vendors and Client - Need help Urgently Software Quality Assurance 5
H Can the documents supplied by the client categorised as customer property?? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 6
CarolX Which BitTorrent Client do you use? After Work and Weekend Discussion Topics 18
D Can an unsatisfied client withhold the consultant's fee? Consultants and Consulting 14
A Net Promoter Score (NPS) for Analyzing the Client Satisfaction Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
J As a consultant, have you ever fired a client? If so, when? Consultants and Consulting 54
A Should I use "Client" or "Customer" in my documents? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 24
D Can both the Client and the Candidate be the Customer in a Recruitment scenario ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 22
D Auditing Ethics - Lead Auditor solicited client for training General Auditing Discussions 6

Similar threads

Top Bottom