Are AIAG PPAP Elements Mandatory?

[PABSR]

Are the PPAP elements suggested by the AIAG mandatory? What if we don't do design?

Design Records
Authorized Engineering Change (note) Documents
Engineering Approval
DFMEA
Process Flow Diagram
PFMEA
Control Plan
Measurement System Analysis Studies (MSA)
Dimensional Results
Records of Material / Performance Tests
Initial Process Studies
Qualified Laboratory Documentation
Appearance Approval Report
Sample Production Parts
Master Sample
Checking Aids
Part Submission Warrant (PSW)

I understand that the purpose of the PPAP is to submit documentation that demonstrates the effectiveness of all the engineering and management controls that will assure a conforming product in a consistent way.

Our product is to be considered 'bulk' (we supply rubber sheets), and the customer is asking for all these elements, although we have been supplying the bulk material for a while now. I believe the customer should've asked for all this information before we even submitted samples.

Thank you for your help. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Are the PPAP elements suggested by the AIAG mandatory? What if we don't do design?

Design Records
Authorized Engineering Change (note) Documents
Engineering Approval
DFMEA
Process Flow Diagram
PFMEA
Control Plan
Measurement System Analysis Studies (MSA)
Dimensional Results
Records of Material / Performance Tests
Initial Process Studies
Qualified Laboratory Documentation
Appearance Approval Report
Sample Production Parts
Master Sample
Checking Aids
Part Submission Warrant (PSW)

I understand that the purpose of the PPAP is to submit documentation that demonstrates the effectiveness of all the engineering and management controls that will assure a conforming product in a consistent way.

Our product is to be considered 'bulk' (we supply rubber sheets), and the customer is asking for all these elements, although we have been supplying the bulk material for a while now. I believe the customer should've asked for all this information before we even submitted samples.

Thank you for your help. Any feedback is appreciated.

This is something that you and your customer have to work out. If you're not responsible for design, then you wouldn't have a DFMEA, so that probably wouldn't be expected. If your customer has identified your product as a bulk material, then the bulk material PPAP requirements should apply.

As for the customer asking for PPAP late in the game, your company would be within its rights to revisit the pricing if that's the case. The only one who can tell you what the PPAP requirements are is your customer.

 

[Kales Veggie]

Are the PPAP elements suggested by the AIAG mandatory? What if we don't do design?

Design Records
Authorized Engineering Change (note) Documents
Engineering Approval
DFMEA
Process Flow Diagram
PFMEA
Control Plan
Measurement System Analysis Studies (MSA)
Dimensional Results
Records of Material / Performance Tests
Initial Process Studies
Qualified Laboratory Documentation
Appearance Approval Report
Sample Production Parts
Master Sample
Checking Aids
Part Submission Warrant (PSW)

I understand that the purpose of the PPAP is to submit documentation that demonstrates the effectiveness of all the engineering and management controls that will assure a conforming product in a consistent way.

Our product is to be considered 'bulk' (we supply rubber sheets), and the customer is asking for all these elements, although we have been supplying the bulk material for a while now. I believe the customer should've asked for all this information before we even submitted samples.

Thank you for your help. Any feedback is appreciated.

Yes, PPAP is mandatory if your customer requires it.

If you supply bulk, you follow the bulk sections.

Rubber sheets are not bulk in my opinion. If I was your customer, I would not accept that rubber sheets is bulk. (Resin is bulk, the oil and polymer you buy to make the rubber is bulk. Cured rubber sheets / rolls is not)

Sounds like you must have a conversation with your customer and explain your product and what the PPAP manual requires.

 

[sky66666]

Every factory have design even if design is from customer.
1.Many customer invite the supplier join in the design for cost and technique,
2.if they do not, we should check the tolerance or material is reasonable while receive the design file ,this review is a design record

 

[Jim Wynne]

Every factory have design even if design is from customer.
1.Many customer invite the supplier join in the design for cost and technique,
2.if they do not, we should check the tolerance or material is reasonable while receive the design file ,this review is a design record

In automotive work "design record" normally refers to an engineering drawing and math data (CAD files, e.g.), and not to things like design review records. Even if a supplier isn't responsible for the design of the product, there's still going to be a design record to deal with.

 

[svara]

Quick question, My company is TS certified - we have a sister company in another state that is only ISO certified. If they were to manufacture automotive parts is there any way we can do the PPAP? Can we treat them as a supplier that is ISO certified with the parts coming through our plant to be inspected and shipped out? My gut feeling is no because we do not make the parts at our plant but I'm not 100% clear on this

 

[Stijloor]

Quick question, My company is TS certified - we have a sister company in another state that is only ISO certified. If they were to manufacture automotive parts is there any way we can do the PPAP? Can we treat them as a supplier that is ISO certified with the parts coming through our plant to be inspected and shipped out? My gut feeling is no because we do not make the parts at our plant but I'm not 100% clear on this

That "supplier" (sister company) would be PPAP responsible to you! Keep in mind that PPAP requirements cascade through the supply chain. Even ISO 9001:2008 certified/registered companies must submit PPAP's when required. This is not limited to ISO/TS 16949:2009 certified companies.

Hope this helps!

 

[qualityboi]

PPAP - If you are meeting requirements of ISOTS all the elements of PPAP should be there it is then a matter of putting them in a package for a customer. But directly to the question it is not mandatory if a company asks you for a PPAP and they are only quoting for business. If they ask for PPAP and you agree to their business and it is automotive you should be doing it. We only do PPAP when the customer asks for it. Otherwise all those items are scattered throughout our processes. That said we have told our ISOTS registrars that we follow Jedec requirements for change management, so if a change is made and the customer does not reply within 30 days on there agreement it is assumed Ok by the customer regardless of not having a signed approval and the Registrar is OK with that mainly because we have communicated this to all customers.

 

[PABSR]

I think that Ppap's should be requested only when:
- the part in question is critical, and/or
- when you are Tier 1-Tier 2 in the automotive supply chain
Also, it should be mandatory when you need a formal supplier statement that the product is what it is (maybe for regulatory reasons).

In other cases, I think it is a non adding value event. What do you think?

 

[david.liu.ext]

If the definition of bulk material is not applicable, "The organization shall use level 3 as the default level for all submissions unless otherwise specified by the authorized customer representative." It has nothing to do with the value.