Are ECO's closed after they are shown to be Effective?

Q

QAMTY

#1
Hi I come across with a doubt regarding the closeouts of ECO´s

Is it the same case as when A corrective actions is raised?

In my understanding, a CA is closed until is implemented and proven to be effective

So, an ECR report should be closed out until the changes to engineering
documents are made and such changes have been applied in equipment and proven to be succesful? or is closed out until the documents are changed?

Is it correct?

Thanks-
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Hi I come across with a doubt regarding the closeouts of ECO´s

Is it the same case as when A corrective actions is raised?

In my understanding, a CA is closed until is implemented and proven to be effective

So, an ECR report should be closed out until the changes to engineering
documents are made and such changes have been applied in equipment and proven to be succesful? or is closed out until the documents are changed?

Is it correct?

Thanks-
ECO (Engineering Change ORDER) is closed once it is approved and released.
All the effectiveness and etc etc, are the review considerations before the approval and release.
Bad ECO's makes more ECO's ~~~
 
V

vimalvg

#3
Changes caused by ECO has been validated.These should be done before the release of ECO.
 
Q

QAMTY

#4
Thanks Somashekar and Vimalg

Sorry, Release means th closeout?

e.g. Someone propose a change
-Engineering accepts the change
-Then make the modifications to documents
-Such modifications are done on some equipment in workshops
-Some inspection is done on the equipment
- Change is validated and is proven to be OK.

at this point the ECO can be Closed?
or for you, Released means the step when
Engineering approves the changes?

Thanks
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
Thanks Somashekar and Vimalg

Sorry, Release means th closeout?

e.g. Someone propose a change
-Engineering accepts the change
-Then make the modifications to documents
-Such modifications are done on some equipment in workshops
-Some inspection is done on the equipment
- Change is validated and is proven to be OK.

at this point the ECO can be Closed?
or for you, Released means the step when
Engineering approves the changes?

Thanks
This is something that your company needs to work out. Everything depends on the nature of the change, and it often boils down to when it's OK to ship product rather than when an ECO is "closed."

For example, if a customer asks for a dimensional change to a product, there's generally a period of feasibility evaluation and perhaps pricing negotiations before both parties agree to go forward with the change. When there is agreement, the ECO can be done and closed after everything that needs to be changed administratively has been changed (drawing revised, pricing updated, revision levels changed in the item master, disposition of existing inventory, etc.)

At that point, with a released revision (ECO) all that remains is whatever's necessary to effect the actual change to the product, which might involve tooling updates, dimensional confirmation and PPAP submission or other customer approval.
 
Q

QAMTY

#6
Thanks Jim

It seems somewhat confuse for me

Really I don´t have experience in this ECR´s, I thought it was needed a
treatment like a CAR in the way is documented.

E.g In a same form, someone raises a CAR, on the same form is explained the problem and the responsible writes down the solution, tracking progress, and closing out the RAC.

For ECO´s OR ECR or whatever name we choose, it seems more complicated
because according what I read on the net, we first need to raise an ECR, then an ECO and finally an ECN, more steps more forms, in your point of view, is it practical to include everything in just one form? and name it just ECR?

or should be this the best method to have control of the Designs?

What I need is just that, my Engineering department everyday is asked changes
from the manufacturing department, and I want to have control on those changes.

Thanks four your patience.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Thanks Jim

It seems somewhat confuse for me

Really I don´t have experience in this ECR´s, I thought it was needed a
treatment like a CAR in the way is documented.

E.g In a same form, someone raises a CAR, on the same form is explained the problem and the responsible writes down the solution, tracking progress, and closing out the RAC.

For ECO´s OR ECR or whatever name we choose, it seems more complicated
because according what I read on the net, we first need to raise an ECR, then an ECO and finally an ECN, more steps more forms, in your point of view, is it practical to include everything in just one form? and name it just ECR?

or should be this the best method to have control of the Designs?

What I need is just that, my Engineering department everyday is asked changes
from the manufacturing department, and I want to have control on those changes.

Thanks four your patience.
I've seen instances where a formal ECR (Engineering Change Request) and an Engineering Change Order (ECO) were both used, but never with a third document (ECN). ECN and ECO are often used to mean the same thing.

What happens when a product configuration changes depends a lot on the product. A simple change from a slotted screw to a Phillips head might involve only a simple drawing and/or BOM (Bill of Materials) change and disposition of existing inventory, while a significant dimensional change in a casting might entail a lot more work and activity. How all of this is handled is generally a matter of choice, as I suggested earlier.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
From my point of view (no Standard citation because there is no Standard for an engineering change order):
an ECO is just one step on the path from one revision level to the next.

If an organization receives a request/order from ANY source (customer, internal, regulatory), it normally goes through a process of approvals of the change until all pertinent parties agree before it is issued/released/approved as the next level version/revision of the document/engineering drawing/"whatever."

Jim Wynne alludes to the Associated Documents which may also require change - this is a process many term Configuration Management. I've talked about it in many posts, most recently here which was based on a detailed explanation from a previous year

As I read through the OP, it appears there is some "confusion" about the exact terminology. The reason I used some alternates (issued/released/approved) is because many organizations develop and use their own terminology which may be different from "mainstream" usage. This altered terminology is not wrong, but "best practice" is to define what terms an organization WILL use and then use them consistently throughout its system.
 
Q

QAMTY

#9
Thanks again Jim

You meant ECR and ECO in the same form?

in the other hand, any change minor or major it deserves a change of a document
and consecuently to record the change in forms.
I´m defining minor and major ECR´s, .e.g. the minor (to complement a drawing, adding a dimension which is cosmetic) and exists the major that could be Design change, what is to change the specification, to modify the base of a motor, changes which cause delays in tasks in workshops and also when budget is affected.

This way, the minor ECR´s will require less reviewing and the majors, surely
all the company will be involved.

I don´t know if this concept is valid and useful.


Thanks
 
V

vanputten

#10
In my opinion, I would say that in general the following things need to be completed before an engineering change can be considered closed.

-Someone propose a change
-Such draft/prototype modifications are done on some equipment, process, measurement methods, material, in workshops
-Some inspection is done
-Change is validated and is proven to be OK
-Engineering approves/accepts the change
-Then make the modifications to documents, process, tooling, measurements methods, material, training and awareness are implemented
-ECO closed
 
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