Are ISO/TS 16949:2009 requirements applicable to our non-automotive products?

[sitapaty]

I strongly disagree with your disagreement! It's not about "our convenience" it's about the rules. I'm a 3rd-party TS 16949 auditor, and it's strongly emphasized in the qualification process that the only samples I should look at in a TS 16949 audit are those relevant to automotive product for subscribing customers. If the client requests it, I may also include other automotive product for customers that don't subscribe to TS 16949.

I'm required to be prepared to audit

In short, non-automotive product is not to be considered in the TS 16949 audit.

Please mention the clause nos of the quotes you have shown. I could not find them in TS16949:2009.STANDARD.
You may be justified from the leagal point of view.But from the principles of 'TQM' AND 'COMPANYWIDE QUALITY CONTROL' how can you advocate double standard in a single organization?
Could Dr.Deming and Dr.Juran approve of it?
-Sitapaty

 

[Jim Wynne]

Please mention the clause nos of the quotes you have shown. I could not find them in TS16949:2009.STANDARD.

Can you find something in the standard that says that non-automotive product is subject to TS16949 requirements?

You may be justified from the leagal point of view.But from the principles of 'TQM' AND 'COMPANYWIDE QUALITY CONTROL' how can you advocate double standard in a single organization?

Howste isn't advocating a double standard. Who's to say that if the 16949 requirements aren't formally applied to all product, that the non-automotive product will be allowed to go to hell? Some companies serve significantly different markets that have different requirements. Should I have to do AIAG PPAP (for example) for customers that require some other form of product approval process?

Could Dr.Deming and Dr.Juran approve of it?

What does that have to do with anything unless I'm selling products to Deming and Juran? All that matters is keeping customers happy.

 

[Umang Vidyarthi]

Dear Sirs,

I need your help to clarify a doubt... We have ISO/TS16949:2009 place. We manufacture a component for Huyndai Car Company which they use it in the car. The rest of the products that we make supplied to other industries that is not related to automotive.

Here comes my doubt that ISAR, DEFMEA, PFMEA, Control Plan, Product audit, Process audit etc., to be done only for the product that we supply to car company or to be done for all products including non-automotive products that we make and supply. Pls. explain.
Thanks in advance.

Regards,

S.Sundaramurthi

Howste has given the right reply to your querry.

ISO can be applied to different industries, but TS 16949 is another cup of tea. All these you have stated above, can be applied to your other than automotive products as well under ISO umbrella, but not under the garb of TS. FYI:

ISO/TS (Technical Specification) 16949 is a quality management system standard specific to the Automotive industry, which includes all the requirements of the ISO 9000 quality management system standard verbatim. In addition, the standard combines the AVSQ (Italian), EAQF (French) and VDA 6.1 (German) automotive requirements.ISO/TS 16949, coupled with customer-specific requirements, defines the quality system requirements for use in the automotive supply chain.In April 2002, a new revised standard ISO/TS 16949:2002 was introduced. The new ISO/TS 16949:2002 standard replaces ISO/TS 16949:1999, VDA 6.1, AVSQ & EAQF certification. QS-9000:1998 was officially phased out as of December 15, 2006, and has been replaced by the ISO/TS 16949:2002 standard.

Also have a look at FAQ for TS

Umang

 

[Sidney Vianna]

But from the principles of 'TQM' AND 'COMPANYWIDE QUALITY CONTROL' how can you advocate double standard in a single organization?

Double standard? What about the proper level of controls for a product realization, based on customer expectations? Why would you add unnecessary levels of control to a product, raising it's costs without a return in the investment?

Could Dr.Deming and Dr.Juran approve of it?

If they didn't, they would be wrong. :mg:

 

[sitapaty]

Let us consider here an hypothetical case:An organization produces 100 products.out of that only 10 products are for automotive industry.The company implements strictly TS16949 Standard for automotive related products.For the rest Their TS Manual does not apply.
When the organization doesnot follow TS16949 in 90% of their products ,is't it wrong to label it as a TS16949 company.
It is something like saying that "I follow ISO 14001 for 10% of my products only because the customer wants it".
Sitapaty

 

[Sidney Vianna]

When the organization doesnot follow TS16949 in 90% of their products ,is't it wrong to label it as a TS16949 company.

Technically, the organization is not certified. What is certified is the quality management system of the organization. The certificate has clear limitations, such as identification of the site(s) covered, product lines, validity, support sites also audited, etc. So, users of the certificates must PAY ATTENTION to the contents and limitations of such documents.

 

[howste]

Please mention the clause nos of the quotes you have shown. I could not find them in TS16949:2009.STANDARD.

You won't find them in the TS 16949:2009 standard because they are in a separate document called "Rules for achieving IATF recognition" which you can find referenced on page viii of ISO/TS 16949:2009. They are the requirements which all certification bodies that issue TS 16949 certificates are required to follow.

When the organization doesnot follow TS16949 in 90% of their products ,is't it wrong to label it as a TS16949 company.

Do you work in the automotive industry? Your arguments demonstrate a distinct lack of familiarity with the TS 16949 certification process. If you do work in the industry, I'd suggest that you get a copy of the rules document and familiarize yourself with it.

 

[sitapaty]

You won't find them in the TS 16949:2009 standard because they are in a separate document called "Rules for achieving IATF recognition" which you can find referenced on page viii of ISO/TS 16949:2009. They are the requirements which all certification bodies that issue TS 16949 certificates are required to follow.


Do you work in the automotive industry? Your arguments demonstrate a distinct lack of familiarity with the TS 16949 certification process. If you do work in the industry, I'd suggest that you get a copy of the rules document and familiarize yourself with it.

you are getting personnel.I DONOT WANT TO DISCUSS MY BIO-DATA HERE.
sitapaty

 

[Raffy]

Hi
I would like to clarify things regarding the scope of TS...
If a company is a third tier and the company is involved in designing and creating a test solution to the device being supplied by the customer. Can the said company applied for TS? What if in doing test to the device of a customer, he is actually providing a process of setting the temperature accuracy reading? Any advice. Any recommendations..
Thank you very much in advance for the usual prompt attention you will give this request.
Raffy

 

[qusys]

However, if an organization want to gain advantage to improve their own processes, my thought is to apply ISO TS to all products, including the ones not automotive.
You should put in place a QMS that is managed through ISO TS, independently by the number of products that are automotive.
The usage of Control plan, FMEA, SPC,MSA should be seen as a leverage for the success of the company and not as a bureaucracy.
However it is also important what the Customers wantin terms of certification.
Pls, work with them and your CB to better address the issue.