Are Professional Certifications meaningful? What of Recertification Requirements?

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#11
I agree on the value of the Body of Knowledge in the CQE - it really embodies all the skills and knowledge to perform Quality Operations.
It doesn't come close to embodying "all the skills and knowledge." As an actual quality manager and one who has held the title of quality engineer in one form or another for many years, I can tell you that while the technical skills are undoubtedly indispensable, there's a lot more to it than technical knowledge.

Let me put in a bid for those who have multiple certifications. My two ASQ Sections each have several folks who hold ALL the certifications. These guys are not only the living Body of Knowledge within the Section, but in their workplaces (two are now consultants.) They are deeply involved in imparting that knowledge throughout the organization(s), not just to the quality wonks in one department.
The work is what tells the story, not a long list of dubious abbreviations. The amount of knowledge that may be imparted is wholly dependent upon the willingness of the receiving end to listen, understand and act. The irony is that if the receiving end is willing to listen and understand, they probably don't need to be told.


Although I have a very thinly disguised prejudice against various charlatans who hold themselves out to charge folks for "learning" Six Sigma, I have respect for the intent of the ASQ Six Sigma Black Belt (versus others who confer it based on the candidate's check clearing) in requiring somebody to attest to the experience of people in the field BEFORE conferring the SSBB to those aspirants.
This is like what a boss of mine once said about certificates of conformance being notarized: One person lies and another one swears to it. You'd be surprised at what might take place in a company with an important customer demanding there be a certified BB in the house. This is not to say that there aren't worthwhile BB projects taking place, but the fact that someone in a position of authority who most likely has no idea what's being attested to attests to something is not very impressive.


I regret that SS has put CQE in its shadow in many organizations, but it's really only our own fault as professionals that we don't do more to educate the industry leaders on the reality of quality tools beyond the PR hype SS enjoys.

Quality Managers would do well to study the BOK for the QM certification even if they never bother to actually get certified to it.
SS has gained ascendancy not due to some fault or lack of action on the part of quality professionals, but because a diagnostic trait of American business executives is a desire to go to heaven without having to die first. American manufacturing is rife with quality managers and engineers who have had colorful belts bestowed upon them against their will. I know because I came very close to it a few years ago, and I wasn't happy about it. As far as the QM body of knowledge is concerned, I work it every day.
 
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TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#12
I find this discussion interesting but coming from the beginning of a career I can't comment on which collection of letters after the name means most. I can see proving your knowledge is important to get new jobs. In my case I got my quality job by being known to my new employer. It was a move into that role and I am expected to learn quickly on the job. Being a small company it means we have less need for letters after the name. Also the company won't pay for me to get them.

I have been recommended to join an institute (CQI in the UK). The purpose seems to me to get letters after my name for the business card. I see joining as good for gaining knowledge through local groups/chapters. This to me is similar to getting a quality certification. It is not the letters but what you learn getting there. That is also most important at the later stages of your career hence perhaps losing the letters mean less then if you are known to people in the field as having the BOK on quality matters.

Just my uninformed views on this.
 

mdurivage

Quite Involved in Discussions
#13
I believe professional certifications are valuable. The combination of education, training, and experience is what builds and defines a well-rounded individual. I also firmly believe in continued professional development and growth. Holding certifications especially for more ‘seasoned’ quality professionals sets a good example for individuals beginning their quality career.

I teach various quality courses as an adjunct faculty at a local community college. I can tell you that I learn something more about quality every time I teach a course. I try to instill my students that training and education is a life long journey and that being responsible for and relying on yourself is key to being prepared for the next opportunity! In my humble opinion certifications and recertification is a way to ensure that you are prepared!
 

Brizilla

Quite Involved in Discussions
#14
I believe professional certifications are valuable. The combination of education, training, and experience is what builds and defines a well-rounded individual. I also firmly believe in continued professional development and growth. Holding certifications especially for more ?seasoned? quality professionals sets a good example for individuals beginning their quality career.

I disagree. I think getting certifications "to set a good example" is pretty silly.
Taking that kind of training needs to be value added to the individual. If it is then it's a wonderful thing, if it isn't then it's unnecessary.


I teach various quality courses as an adjunct faculty at a local community college. I can tell you that I learn something more about quality every time I teach a course. I try to instill my students that training and education is a life long journey and that being responsible for and relying on yourself is key to being prepared for the next opportunity! In my humble opinion certifications and recertification is a way to ensure that you are prepared!
I've been in Quality for about 29 years now, starting as a humble floor inspector and working my way to layout technician, lead inspector, asst. quality supervisor and eventually quality manager. I'm in my 3d incarnation of quality manager now. No certifications, I do have the BOK book for ASQ QM cert. and it was useful. As a matter of fact alot of ASQ books are useful and I highly recommend them. One of the main reasons I join ASQ is cheaper access to the library. I'm not currently a member but I will rejoin when I need something or my company decides to foot the bill. I have no letters behind my name. As a matter of fact I don't have a degree either. (I'm not recommending that, just a point of fact.) Experience, knowledge gained and the ability and willingness to learn are some of the most important attributes for success in Quality. I've been to ASQ meetings and most of the people are nice and generally knowledgeable. At the beginning every one stood up, gave their name title, and what certifications they had. That was fun:sarcasm:, one of the other people there was a girl who had been an inspector for about a year. She joined because she thought ASQ was an organization of her peers. She also told me that she wouldn't be coming back, too intimidating and there were no other inspection personnel there, just mostly people with letters behind their names. (except for me, and I intimidated her too because I was a QM) My point is this, I've never needed certifications to get an interview at any level of my career. I've never needed them to keep one. When I've had to hire people I take an ASQ certification into consideration as just another aspect of experience and not a requirement. I've hired a couple in my time with mixed results so it's not a slam dunk in itself. I find that some people with the letters behind their name value them...alot. Me, I prefer experience and common sense. Just my take.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
I think I agree with you brizilla about letters after your name. I had two sets of letters related to two degrees I have. None of those degrees related to each other, I mean they were not in the same field. One was mining the other was materials engineering. Kind of different ends of the game I suppose. Neither of those sets of letters have been needed in my jobs. They are only there as an indication of my "intellectual" ability I suppose.

I think any sets of letters after someone's name can only indicate to someone what level they were at. I doubt I am at the same technical level I was when straight out of Uni. I have forgotten so much and learnt so much too. Does that mean that the letters are meaningless? I think they are for me but if I was using those skills (and more) as part of my job then perhaps those letters would still mean something. In that case there could be an argument for keeping them. Personally I have never used y letters.

I used think a lot of letters after your name. That was when I was about 9 and saw a name badge my Dad had from a conference he went to. It had BEng, Ceng MICE. What does that mean? It means he is a chartered civil engineer with experience and training beyond a simple degree. Someone who should be considered at the same level of training, knowledge and experience as a Medical Doctor, GP or barrister. Warning snob alert. I just mean he has something like 7 or 8 years absolute minimum post degree training and experience to become MICE and CEng. That is higher level training than the 7 years of the old school apprenticships you used to get in larger manufacturing industries. Not better just suited for one field (and not suitable training for fixing cars as some thought back when he got them).

Point is they're important if they are inportant to you. If they don't add value to you personally then let them lapse. I am too early in my "career" to have any quality letters. not sure if I will end up with any or need them but would like them as they could be seen as helping me get out into the wider world of employment. No benefit now but in a couple of years they could be.
 

Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#16
OK, this is a multipart question, and a little venting, please bear with me.

I held / hold certifications in CQE, CQA and CMQ/OE, but have been decertified in 2 of them so far, and am not worried about being decertified in the last one. This is where the questions come in...

Have you noticed any difference in your careers due to the certifications? Did they make ANY difference in anything you do? Any doors open due to them, people treat you different, anything at all?

Now, on to the recert question, do you think the recert process and requirements are still relevant? Have they kept up with reality?

Reason for asking, I spent 20+ years in quality and working to build my career, but over the last 3 years, some serious life changes, primarily a divorce and job change, have made me rethink what is really important. No suprise, it's my kids that are most important, not going to meetings, seminars, board meetings, trainings, etc...

The things that are on the exams are the same things I do daily for work, therefore, by keeping my job as a quality engineer means I still pass the test, every day.

Also, in the global economy of 2012, travel is more important, especially since I'm a supplier QE, which makes my home time with my princesses even more valuable.

Thoughts?
I get paid more. New certifications are directly reflected in my paycheck. They don't change anything I do, but there is a result (for me) from obtaining them.
 
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