Are 'Quality' Standard Certifications slowly losing their Credibility?

[brahmaiah]

It is unfotunate that some people are taking this certification problem personally.The root causes are same in all countries.But some are taking a 'Holier than thou' attitude .
Truth is short & simple.It does not require long paragraphs to explain.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[Chennaiite]

Re: Rules for an unedifying thread

To summarise, the rules for an unedifying thread:

1. Start a new thread in which you make a forthright and outspoken statement about a big problem you perceive. Give your thread a provocative title to attract interest.
   
2. Keep your post limited to the problem only. There's no need for any supporting data or evidence, because doing that would just cloud the real and important issue you are raising.
   
3. Make sure your statement is not limited in any way (eg, only in your country/area/area of experience or expertise). Again, anything like this would just confuse the real issue.
   
4. If there are responses that ask for data or evidence that supports your statement, they clearly don't know what you know. And they should. So insist that they provide facts or evidence to support any opinion which doesn't agree with yours.
   
5. The thread should attract at least a few posters who agree with your statement. A single one saying they agree is more than adequate to clearly demonstrate that what you say is true.
   
6. There will be some posters who disagree with you, perhaps even quite a few. But the numbers absolutely don't matter, so ignore them. And ignore everything and anything they say which doesn't agree with your point. Because your point has now in any case been confirmed as true.
   
7. You may choose to repeat your statement in one or more posts, or add some extra explanations about the problem. It's a very good idea to start sentences with words like 'I feel' or 'I believe' or 'I know', or variations such as 'everyone knows'.
   Also, use some of the following terms liberally: concern, failure, systemic failure, corrective action, root out, etc.
   
8. Given that it's true and it's terrible, someone is obviously to blame. So pick someone and blame them for the terrible situation. Remember, it's a big problem, and everyone knows it is true, so someone has to be accountable.
   
9. At all times, remember not to provide any evidence, nor data, nor any possible solutions. Doing that would completely miss the whole point.

Jane,

Thanks for the rules.
Cool your heels before you completely lose direction. All your opinions, thoughts are well taken, even if not always agreed. But sit back and try to think in a different perspective which is the right way of solving any concern, sorry Problem.
Thanks again.

 

[howste]

It is unfotunate that some people are taking this certification problem personally.The root causes are same in all countries.But some are taking a 'Holier than thou' attitude .
Truth is short & simple.It does not require long paragraphs to explain.
V.J.Brahmaiah

Thank you for proving Jane's point.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Rules for an unedifying thread

Oops, I realise I left out some info that could go into either Rule 6 or 7.

Anyone who disagrees with the fundamental statement is clearly unable to recognise and accept what is True. This will be because they are reacting emotionally, taking things personally and clearly having their feelings hurt. Point this out. If they deny it, that's a clear indication that this also is True.

You could also apologise for causing them pain by again pointing out the obvious Truth of the original statement, that one that they still find so difficult to accept. But avoid engaging in any debate of the original topic; remember, the premise is True and as such does not require further discussion.

 

[Chennaiite]

Re: Rules for an unedifying thread

Oops, I realise I left out some info that could go into either Rule 6 or 7.

Anyone who disagrees with the fundamental statement is clearly unable to recognise and accept what is True. This will be because they are reacting emotionally, taking things personally and clearly having their feelings hurt. Point this out. If they deny it, that's a clear indication that this also is True.

You could also apologise for causing them pain by again pointing out the obvious Truth of the original statement, that one that they still find so difficult to accept. But avoid engaging in any debate of the original topic; remember, the premise is True and as such does not require further discussion.

Jane,

I like your contemporary Managerial skills.
- Breaking arguments diplomatically
- Changing direction diplomatically
Thanks.

 

[Howard Atkins]

I would like to confess here that my views are limited to my khowledge of the situation in my own country India.In India most certifying organizations are acredited by bodies located in UK,US,GERMANY.AUSTRALIA AND SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.They donot seem to have sufficient control over their licencees due to geographical and economical reasons.This has given rise to a poorly controlled situation.
Again certification is a bussiness.

Even in India the auditors will react the same way as some have done from other countries.

I hope this explanation of mine will help correct some hurt feelings.
V.J.Brahmaiah

I have audited (TS) and performed witness audits in India as well as a large number of other countries.
The audits and auditors that I have seen in India are very similar as to the rest of the world. There is a tendency to be very literal but not to the extent of hurting the QMS. I have seen very good plants in India and very bad plants in other places.
The main factor as said before is the management buy in.
Despite it being a cliche, the QMS is only as effective as the General Manager/CEO/MD/Whatever you call the TOP MAN, wants it to be