Are registrars taking a harder line on upgrading QS-9000 certs to TS 16949?

The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
I have a question for the members who have already upgraded from QS to TS. . . (or ISO 94 to ISO2K for that matter)

Are registrars taking a harder line on upgrading QS certs to TS than they did in QS (or ISO) surveillence audits?

I know the difference in meeting reqt's vs. process based, but do the registrars essentially start from scratch? . . or do they take into account that the company was QS certified for 8 years or so and has been effective in it's use?

I believe we will be seeing the same auditors used for the QS audits.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Around these parts, it appears that auditors seem to be more serious than in QS. I hear a lot of focus is on CSRs. Every company I have dealt with has had to show their internal auditors met the Ford requirements (even if Ford was not a customer). Also, I have heard that auditors want you to show them proof of continual improvement over the years.
 
T

Tom W

#3
My experience was that the auditors knew our system, were familure with it, however focused on the differences with QS and TS. They wanted to see that we actually implement the differences and have objective evidence of successful implementation. We were very luck to have one of our auditors be the same auditor that had been coming for several years under QS.

He approched the audit the same but dug deep into the differences with TS. He had that background on our system so he didn't have to waste time so to speak.
 

The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Hey Gang. . .

I was hoping to get more feedback on this. . .

so I'll un-bury it. . . and see if anyone else has any input

Thanx
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#5
In previous company I was responsible for TS1-QMS.
During last Surveillance Audit in 2003 auditor stated OFI focused on TS2. Especially in record control area.
This year I send application to CB and in meantime change the company, but I stay close to old friends.
Pre-audit.
What's new? After 5 TS1-SA without any "warnings" on TS2-pre-audit a manufacturing -only company becomes a design-responsible one.
Shock.
Of course it is subcontracted item, but who needs product design, when You were "created" only for production.
 

The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#6
Sebastian said:
What's new? After 5 TS1-SA without any "warnings" on TS2-pre-audit a manufacturing -only company becomes a design-responsible one. Shock. Of course it is subcontracted item, but who needs product design, when You were "created" only for production.
You do (did) design your processes so you cannot opt out of that requirement for design.
 
S

SteelWoman

#8
Sebastian, we're fighting same issue from our upgrade audit - after NOT being product-design responsible for 7 years under QS the TS auditor is suddenly insisting we DO do product design. Bizarre, what's going on that this is suddenly being pushed? I don't get it.

Our upgrade audit, with the exception of some notable issues I addressed in another post (We Made it to TS post) did NOT go very deep but was very thorough in terms of the sheer amount of stuff it looked at. As our auditor said, the "readiness evaluation" that was done before the audit (submitting quality manual, procedures, flow charts, etc to the registrar in advance) was half the battle - the upgrade audit is then to make sure you have indeed put those things into place. We did a LOT of prepping people for a traditional down and dirty, digging deep audit but it was more a skim across the surface to make sure they hit EVERYTHING at least a little. I expect more indepth in the surveillance audits.
 

Sebastian

Trusted Information Resource
#9
SteelWoman said:
Sebastian, we're fighting same issue from our upgrade audit - after NOT being product-design responsible for 7 years under QS the TS auditor is suddenly insisting we DO do product design. Bizarre, what's going on that this is suddenly being pushed? I don't get it.
I don't have "Rules..." for TS1, but maybe there weren't so strictly described product design-possibilities (You or Your customer) as in "Rules..." for TS2.
So if You have "sister-plant", which is providing for Your common customer product design activities, they (CB) got You. :D
 
P

pga_gold

#10
I have seen the same type of things others commented on. Our pre-asessment audit didn't go very deep, but turned into a very lengthy "skimming" of our QM and business processes. A great deal of time was spent reviewing the process links, our process flowcharts, turtle diagrams, and process measurements.

I'm not totally sure what to expect during the certification audit. I've heard reports from the "rumor mill" that cert audits are friendlier and the subsequent surveillance audits are bears. So, I'd say they aren't necessarily taking a harder line for certification, but a harder line may be taken after certification.
 
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