Are Special Characteristics mandatory (required)?

[Richard Pike]

Re: Special Characteristics? Is this compulsory?

As quality professionals we should refrain from taking cheap shots at the PPAP process, which, when implemented correctly can add a lot of value for both supplier and customer. I do not believe that it's wrong to ask a supplier for evidence that his process is capable of meeting Customer requirements.

It's our responsibility as quality professionals to help our organizations and/or our Clients understand how this could be implemented.

If the PPAP process is too much to ask, a supplier should not engage in the automotive supply business.

Stijloor.

Well that is an opinion that I cannot share.

Yes of course it is necessary to assist Clients (that's what we get paid for), however the application of PPAP is very often simply non-value adding from either a Automotive Customer or an Automotive Supplier viewpoint, so we often end up assisting them to just "get though it", and that is an attitude that is all to prevalent in poor Quality Management Systems.

Personally I like to explain to my clients (some of whom are Automotive Customers) the benefit of all actions, and with PPAP, all to often I am forced to concede defeat and revert to "because its a Customer Requirement".

The discussion around Critical Characteristics is a typical example as its current interpretation encourages Suppliers to avoid disclosure with all the potential ramifications of such action.

Simply because it is does not mean it should be; and I strongly believe that "our job as professionals" is not limited to yes sir/no sir but should encourage genuine relationships and interaction to the benefit of ALL stakeholders.

 

[Chennaiite]

Re: Special Characteristics? Is this compulsory?

Well that is an opinion that I cannot share.

, however the application of PPAP is very often simply non-value adding from either a Automotive Customer or an Automotive Supplier viewpoint, so we often end up assisting them to just "get though it", and that is an attitude that is all to prevalent in poor Quality Management Systems.

It appears, you are only questioning the application of PPAP, rather than PPAP, per se. If that is the case, PPAP is not the only exception. We do come across non-value added PFMEA, Control Plan, SPC, MSA and so on. And, the culprit is not just the Automotive industry, for that matter.
I agree, sometimes my Customer ask BS, me as a Customer, ask the same also. But then, this does not take anything away from the benefits of using the tools.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Special Characteristics? Is this compulsory?

Well that is an opinion that I cannot share.

Then you missed my point.

Stijloor.

 

[Marc]

Thread topic: Are Special Characteristics mandatory (required)?

 

[jmp4429]

It sure sounds like the original poster had the same 3rd party auditor that we had. He insisted that there should be customer-selected special characteristics identified on the part drawings. The product specs were customer-owned and they had not identified any special characteristics (high criticality part - the whole part was one giant special characteristic).
We finally asked if he meant for us to demand that the customer change their drawing to satisfy his whims. The look on his face indicated that's what he wanted, but he dropped the subject.

 

[howste]

I'm late coming to this thread, and I'm surprised that nobody referred to the IATF guidance document for TS 16949. Here's what it says:

7.3.2.3 Special characteristics

Not all products necessarily have special characteristics. The organization itself may define special characteristics. Sources for recognition of special characteristics are e.g. PFMEA, customer requirements, analysis of previous concerns and regulations.

It looks like the authoritative source says it's not required in all cases.

 

[Neserae]

We are working through special characteristic issues as well here. We have CIC (Customer Interface Characteristics) and KEYS (Denotes Internal Special Characteristics). Our issue is that we are finding that we have CIC's on component prints as well as final assembly. In my opinion CIC's should only be on the final assembly print and should be driven to the component level as KEYS.....right or wrong.....opinions??????

 

[howste]

What's the difference between a "CIC" and a "KEY" characteristic? Neither of these terms are defined or used in TS 16949. It seems logical that any characteristic of a component part that has an effect on the assembly and the customer would need to be controlled at the part level, not just the assembly.

 

[bobdoering]

What's the difference between a "CIC" and a "KEY" characteristic? Neither of these terms are defined or used in TS 16949.

Doesn't have to be specified or defined in TS 16949 if it is in the customer specific requirements. And how they define is not under any scrutiny to be logical.

 

[howste]

I didn't mean to imply that TS 16949 defined all terms used in the industry. That's why I asked what the difference is. Without context and definition of terms, how can anyone give opinions to help?